How to Make a Suitcase Generator Safe for Storage Below?

[Jim Cate]

DH, if at this point you are still concerned about below decks storage, consider that if you run the tank and carb dry, there is simply not enough fuel in the unit to possibly reach the minimum explosive limit in your bilge, even if all the remaining fuel should vaporize and leak out.

Jim

[weavis]

and........... if you have 2 generators, you can link them for more voltage.

[hpeer]

I haven’t waded through all the posts. I’ll just give you my thought. There is the risk analysis point of view

What is the risk of needing the generator and not having it?
What is the risk of the generator creating a problem stored below decks?
Which risk is greate in a) likelihood/probability and b)consequences/severity?

We keep our under the aft mattress and I don’t bother to drain the fuel. Been a couple or three years with no apparent problems. We don’t use it often, but when we do need it we need it. We don’t have a huge bank to run tools like grinders and such. Otherwise our wind and solar run us.
2¢

Your soulution willl be what is right for you.

[DITB]

I have a Fischer Panda 4000 EGT genset, which gives me 24V DC (house bank is 24V). It has seized and after I finally got parts for the engine itself (Kubato single cylinder EA300 which has been out of production for 10+ years), I intend to fix it.

Using diesel from the same tanks as the two Yanmars on my Cat - is a good setup. Adding another two through-hulls though, and air cooled gas generator would be an alternative at a fraction of the cost, though.

What I have been thinking is to hack such a "suitcase generator" to remove the tank (if possible) and have an external tank with a fuel line - and shut-off valve. When done using the generator, I would switch this valve off and let the generator run itself dry. Tank can stay outside the cabin, while generator can be stored inside as needed.

I am looking at a 2.5kW mains version - and simply connect it to the shore power receptacle. Letting the Victron charge the house batteries, while driving washing machine, water maker or whatever at the same time - would be a good solution. In fact, compared to a 13,000 dollar diesel genset like the one I have, this 1,000 dollar solution might allow me to buy two units, for redundancy. With some solar panels (not much), and generators on each engine, it might be a bit of overkill though ...

[hpeer]

While I have no first hand experience I’ve heard the small diesel generator have a poor service history. A friend had one that was rebuilt 3 times before 300 hours. He eventually threw it out and purchased 2 Honda’s. Far lighter, less complicated, more reliable and far, far cheaper. Probably not universally true but true enough for him.

[s/v Jedi]

Against better justment, I’ll try my engineering approach again: you only have one and only one spare. The primary plus spare is what must do the job. If both have failed in the past, then never add a third item, but change the primary and spare so that it can not happen again. Harden them, change for better, improve to prevent that failure. In your case, make sure that pulley incident can not happen again and install a cruising-rated fuel system that includes fuel polishing and “run from jerry jug” configuration. I have posted a system like that to cope with any situation that we encountered or identified. A Google search will find it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Against better justment, I’ll try my engineering approach again: you only have one and only one spare. The primary plus spare is what must do the job. If both have failed in the past, then never add a third item, but change the primary and spare so that it can not happen again. Harden them, change for better, improve to prevent that failure. In your case, make sure that pulley incident can not happen again and install a cruising-rated fuel system that includes fuel polishing and “run from jerry jug” configuration. I have posted a system like that to cope with any situation that we encountered or identified. A Google search will find it.

I know this is the correct engineering approach, and thanks for posting it. You don't carry spare wings for an airplane -- they just have to work.

I will definitely have a fuel system like yours on my next boat -- your diagram is saved and in my files. But I'm not going to rework the entire fuel system of this boat just a couple of months before leaving on this cruise -- I have other things to spend time and money on, and the fuel system is only one element in the reliability of the power system. As it is, my fuel system works very well -- I inspect the tank regularly and have excellent filtration. I will inspect and if necessary clean the tank before leaving, and I do have the ability to run either main or generator from a jerry jug.

I am still going to have the portable generator on board -- temporarily, just for this trip. I will sell it after coming back and hopefully I won't ever need it. My logic is that it is not really just the second backup -- it backs up some other elements of the electrical system which I don't have a backup for. It's just very cheap insurance against problems.

Yet another reason -- I will have limited time in Greenland because of having to wait for the ice to break up. If God forbid I have a problem with power, I don't want to spend precious days repairing the generator. With the portable generator, I can be back up and running in 5 minutes flat, and mess with the generator when I have time to spare. I'm not saying it will happen -- i have had 9 years and 2000 hours of almost totally trouble-free service out of this excellent heavy duty generator -- it's one of the most reliable systems on board. But God forbid.

By the way, my emergency dewatering pump is also powered by 230v AC. Being really really sure I have power for that under all circumstances is also not a bad thing.

There are some things in life, the risk of which is very small, but the consequences, are really bad, so worth effort to reduce despite the small risk. The consequences of the boat's flooding in +1C water are pretty horrible to contemplate.

I think the storage problem is solved, with the help of all of the great comments in this thread.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Against better justment, I’ll try my engineering approach again: you only have one and only one spare. The primary plus spare is what must do the job. If both have failed in the past, then never add a third item, but change the primary and spare so that it can not happen again. Harden them, change for better, improve to prevent that failure. In your case, make sure that pulley incident can not happen again and install a cruising-rated fuel system that includes fuel polishing and “run from jerry jug” configuration. I have posted a system like that to cope with any situation that we encountered or identified. A Google search will find it.

I agree with Jedi, make your 2 AC systems stronger and don't add a 3rd compromise.
If you say your fuel systems are an issue, then spend some time and money on this.
I don't know your fuel systems, but to install a 50 liter day tank, filter and walbro pump is not that time and money intensive and is a far better security/backup than a Honda generator adding a weak 3rd AC option.

[hpeer]

DH,

IMHO you have the right solution. If for no other reason than it is your boat and your ass. The various complexities, including the risk of ice and sailing in poorly charged waters, mean you look at this problem from a different perspective than others.

As to the day tank, I’ve fitted them in both boats and am a proponent. However it is not a simple fit. Generally you want separate pickups for each system otherwise an air leak or clog will take down everything. Engine, generator, and heater make three. The only maker of small tanks I know of in the US is Moeller and their tanks will take 2 pickups max. So now your into a custom tank. The Walbros need their own pick up filter from the main. And even at that their internal filter can clog. I carry a spare Walbro. Also you then need an additional vent.

If there is a better way I’d like to hear of it. I’m a big proponent of day tanks, I just think they are not a weekend project.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by hpeer

DH,

IMHO you have the right solution. If for no other reason than it is your boat and your ass. The various complexities, including the risk of ice and sailing in poorly charged waters, mean you look at this problem from a different perspective than others.

As to the day tank, I’ve fitted them in both boats and am a proponent. However it is not a simple fit. Generally you want separate pickups for each system otherwise an air leak or clog will take down everything. Engine, generator, and heater make three. The only maker of small tanks I know of in the US is Moeller and their tanks will take 2 pickups max. So now your into a custom tank. The Walbros need their own pick up filter from the main. And even at that their internal filter can clog. I carry a spare Walbro. Also you then need an additional vent.

If there is a better way I’d like to hear of it. I’m a big proponent of day tanks, I just think they are not a weekend project.

Well, it might be difficult just like all boat projects, I'd like to hear of a boat project that was only a weekend project.

Well designed fuel systems are great.

I can for example, run my engine out of fuel, then replace all fuel filters and leave the bowls dry, then switch on a pump and start my engine 10 seconds later.
No bleeding at all.

The day tank gets fresh filtered fuel.

Thats what I would want if going to the ice.

Sorry for the thread drift....Now back to the small Honda Generator backup

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Fuss

Well, it might be difficult just like all boat projects, I'd like to hear of a boat project that was only a weekend project.

Well designed fuel systems are great.

I can for example, run my engine out of fuel, then replace all fuel filters and leave the bowls dry, then switch on a pump and start my engine 10 seconds later.
No bleeding at all.

The day tank gets fresh filtered fuel.

Thats what I would want if going to the ice.

Sorry for the thread drift....Now back to the small Honda Generator backup

Day tanks are awesome. I don't need any convincing at all about that -- definitely will be one on my next boat. But I don't have a good place for one in my present boat -- it would be a very complicated project. I have a list of things to do as long as my arm, and this just wouldn't fit, or be a reasonable expenditure of time.

I have a very good setup for an emergency jerry can jury rigged day tank -- it fits on the generator platform.

Also, my fuel system is in great condition and works really well. I've never had a single problem with it (as opposed to the fuel system inside the generator -- different story). I inspect and clean my tank regularly and will do so before leaving this time. I have excellent filtration, spare hoses, cases of Racor filters, spare lift pumps, etc., etc., etc. And I have enough tankage (700 liters) that I might last the summer without refueling. So it's not like I'm forced to buy dodgy fuel and take risks there.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Colin A

The Honda tank does seem to seal very well by IN-laws keep one in their basement when not using and I have never smelled a whiff of gas down there.

I'm guessing the basement is slightly more stable than the bilge.

[Colin A]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I'm guessing the basement is slightly more stable than the bilge.

Very true but it has the same issues with not having a place for the vapors to easily escape. Compared to my briggs and stratton gen which smells like gas sitting in a shed with a window open a foot away it's quite impressive.

[SunSpray]

Try Watt&Sea's hydrogenerators: https://www.wattandsea.com/en/produc...ydrogenerators,

or a different brand. Much more efficient, if a little more costly.

[Viking Sailor]

Hi DH,

I seem to remember that you are anti-propane so I won't suggest that you convert the Honda to propane. However, doing so would allow you to burn all the fuel from the generator every time you shut it down. Thus, solving the below deck fuel storage problem.

There is a mod to the EU2000i that allows the fuel in the carb to be consumed when shutting down the generator. It involves adding a switch to the generator to separate the shutting off of the electrical and fuel functions.

Information on the above can be found at https://www.hutchmountain.com/

Some years ago I also had a Honda 1000. In order to not have to store in below decks I had a storage box built and mounted on the aft deck. It was a simple white box with teak trim that match the general boat theme.

Also, i discovered that if I used the topping lift to suspend the generator above the deck it seemed to be much quieter.