hope everyone got their solar already

[Johan Leopard51]

I’d like to know why solar is so expensive in the US? Down here in one of the s-holes where government takes about 15% in duties, I have done a lot of solar over the years and most recent was turnkey project at $0.46/watt. As in, every panel, inverter, cable, nut, bolt, cable-tie, fuse, AC panel, EMS & comms, approval, certificate of compliance, inspection : done.

Yes, size does matter, so at 500kW close to 46c/Wdc but at 10kW still around 58c/Wdc.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51

I’d like to know why solar is so expensive in the US? Down here in one of the s-holes where government takes about 15% in duties, I have done a lot of solar over the years and most recent was turnkey project at $0.46/watt. As in, every panel, inverter, cable, nut, bolt, cable-tie, fuse, AC panel, EMS & comms, approval, certificate of compliance, inspection : done.

Yes, size does matter, so at 500kW close to 46c/Wdc but at 10kW still around 58c/Wdc.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/so...ost-benchmarks

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51

I’d like to know why solar is so expensive in the US? Down here in one of the s-holes where government takes about 15% in duties, I have done a lot of solar over the years and most recent was turnkey project at $0.46/watt. As in, every panel, inverter, cable, nut, bolt, cable-tie, fuse, AC panel, EMS & comms, approval, certificate of compliance, inspection : done.

Yes, size does matter, so at 500kW close to 46c/Wdc but at 10kW still around 58c/Wdc.

But at what wages for the manufacturing of the parts?

[AndyOz]

I was waiting for this. The shortages and higher prices are about to hit. It's not just the tariffs; the "current administration" announced massive port fees on Chinese-built ships in US ports (and then reduced them to merely "large" after some backlash.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/01/b...riffs-shipping

"For the week ending May 3, the number of freight vessels leaving China and headed to the Southern California ports, the main U.S. ports receiving Chinese freight and other Asian trade, is down 29% week-over-week, according to Port Optimizer, a tracking system for ships. Year-over-year, the data shows a 44% drop in vessels scheduled to arrive the week of May 4-May 10."

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/22/busi...l-traffic.html

If you were a Chinese shipper, would you take the risk that rates don't increase while your boat is on the water? If you were a freight forwarder, would you wear the extra cost of a shipment?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by AndyOz

I was waiting for this. The shortages and higher prices are about to hit. It's not just the tariffs; the "current administration" announced massive port fees on Chinese-built ships in US ports (and then reduced them to merely "large" after some backlash.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/01/b...riffs-shipping

"For the week ending May 3, the number of freight vessels leaving China and headed to the Southern California ports, the main U.S. ports receiving Chinese freight and other Asian trade, is down 29% week-over-week, according to Port Optimizer, a tracking system for ships. Year-over-year, the data shows a 44% drop in vessels scheduled to arrive the week of May 4-May 10."

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/22/busi...l-traffic.html

If you were a Chinese shipper, would you take the risk that rates don't increase while your boat is on the water? If you were a freight forwarder, would you wear the extra cost of a shipment?

You are half way around the world from either just a question concerning how out of date the article is . Things change by the day here as of now the tarrifs are just a little bit higher than they were before the threat from China to raise tarrifs on American goods to 125% .


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3995106
My question to you is what are the tarrif rates between Australia and China? I'm sure not the same as I have between America and China.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by newhaul

.....
My question to you is what are the tarrif rates between Australia and China? I'm sure not the same as I have between America and China.

Australia is one of only a handful of developed countries to conclude a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with China, giving our businesses a competitive advantage.

From the date of entry into force, ChAFTA set China's tariffs at zero for more than 85 per cent (by 2015 value) of Australian exports to enter China duty free or at preferential tariff rates. This proportion rose to 93 per cent coverage by 1 January 2019 and will reach 98 per cent once ChAFTA is fully implemented. ChAFTA s set Australian import tariffs at zero on 82 per cent of China's exports to Australia from day one, rising to 100 per cent tariff elimination by 1 January 2019.

https://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/agreem...-manufacturing

This is example of how some adults do the trade business. I have stuff to sell and I want to buy some other stuff. What stuff do you have to sell and what do you want to buy. OK, let's trade.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Australia is one of only a handful of developed countries to conclude a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with China, giving our businesses a competitive advantage.

From the date of entry into force, ChAFTA set China's tariffs at zero for more than 85 per cent (by 2015 value) of Australian exports to enter China duty free or at preferential tariff rates. This proportion rose to 93 per cent coverage by 1 January 2019 and will reach 98 per cent once ChAFTA is fully implemented. ChAFTA s set Australian import tariffs at zero on 82 per cent of China's exports to Australia from day one, rising to 100 per cent tariff elimination by 1 January 2019.

https://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/agreem...-manufacturing

This is example of how some adults do the trade business. I have stuff to sell and I want to buy some other stuff. What stuff do you have to sell and what do you want to buy. OK, let's trade.

That works great for a small population but not so much for a country such as the US .

Now does it really matter to you ?
If I were in your place I really wouldn't care what America's policy with China wrt trade was.

[coopec43]

Well we needn't have worried about high cost of solar panels as President Trump has relented. "Trump: 'China was being hurt very badly. I'll speak to President XI.'

It must be lovely to have a compassionate leader. GEEEZ!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That works great for a small population but not so much for a country such as the US .

Now does it really matter to you ?
If I were in your place I really wouldn't care what America's policy with China wrt trade was.

I am not sure what the population size has to do with it but perhaps I am missing something basic.

Yes, it really does matter to Australia (and to the USA)

Australia exports large amounts of energy (gas LNG, thermal coal and metallurgical coal) plus very large amounts of iron ore (736 million tonnes in 2022) to China. So if the Chinese economy tanks, Australia takes a hit also.

If we stop mining iron ore, we stop buying mine machinery from the US. Much of the gas is exported by US owned energy companies. Reducing the gas exports to China has a direct affect on the US energy business.

America has a trade surplus with Australia. Australia buys a lot more from the US than they buy from us yet somehow we are hit with a 10% tariff on the stuff we export to the US. I suppose y'all don't mind paying a bit more for the beef in your burgers and that extra getting funnelled direct into the US federal coffers.

[Fore and Aft]

Wotname I think the price of a burger might be hurting the US. It will be interesting to see if there is a spike in life expectancy if this trend continues. As a totally unrelated thing I noticed McDonalds advertising a burger combo here in Australia for $16 this week. Hell, I can get a plate of noodles or rice for that and be way more satisfied.
I just love the snowball effect of politics and the economy. From my point of view when the US economy tanked last time and the US dollar hit parity. Loads of my customers purchased boats in the US and I ended up doing plenty of surveys of imported boats. Me personally I ended up spending too much on ABE books and buying marine equipment from the US.
Cheers
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...d=BingNewsSerp

[s/v Jedi]

It’s all a diversion to take your attention away from our politicians assassinating people, supplying weapons for terroristic attacks, killing 1,000+ men daily, being thrown out of Africa while China is rebuilding it, gold price going through the roof while nothing more said about live streaming from (empty?) Fort Knox, F16’s not delivering the hyped up difference that was promised, China sending an open letter to Russia that you shouldn’t know about, loosing all the wars, 30 world leaders celebrating Victory Day in Moscow with armies of their nations joining in the parade in red square, Chinese cars still being the cheapest despite a 100% tariff and so on…

[Johan Leopard51]

Originally Posted by Montanan

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/so...ost-benchmarks

It is nuts that I can do commercial rooftop at half your utility scale and one third of your agricultural scale!

First grade panels land here at $0.18/w so 24 in benchmark is not too bad. Inverter too is fine. I have to question your balance of system costs : mounting and labor seems to high and heaven knows what “other” is at same cost as panels. Permits?

[Johan Leopard51]

Originally Posted by newhaul

But at what wages for the manufacturing of the parts?

Our install labor is cheap in dollar terms, but the labor in the parts (imported panels, inverters, cable, db, etc) would be same?

One suspect : apparently US application and permit system is a bitch and your fire reg’s add costs and cost space on the roof.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51

Our install labor is cheap in dollar terms, but the labor in the parts (imported panels, inverters, cable, db, etc) would be same?

One suspect : apparently US application and permit system is a bitch and your fire reg’s add costs and cost space on the roof.

Not to mention all of the rest like the environmental study fee , the rainwater mitigation fee etc: etc:

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by newhaul

...
My question to you is what are the tariff rates between Australia and China? I'm sure not the same as I have between America and China.

As Wotname noted [#36], https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3995197,
The China-Australia Free Trade Agreement [ChAFTA]
On full implementation of ChAFTA, in 2029, almost all of Australia's goods exports to China will enjoy duty-free entry.

ChAFTA outcomes at a glance
➥ https://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/agreem...es-at-a-glance