Honda Common/Ground

[sailorboy1]

Like many many I have a Honda EU2200 and have a plug at the generator with the common and ground jumpered.

I have have had that plug go "bad" numerous times for some reason. I was thinking to get rid of it and instead install a jumper behind the panel directly on the receptacle (the receptacle is just a standard weather resistant one).

Anyone think of any reason to NOT do this?

[team karst]

The first question to consider is why earth the neutral on a small gen system.
There are several reasons to earth ref a “large” system, but they dont really apply for portable gensets.

[capt jgw]

If the neutral (white) and ground (green) are not bonded, the the reverse polarity light will come on. That's probably not a problem in itself, but it could mask a real problem. And AYBC requires they be bonded at the source, which in case is the generator. On shore power it would be in the marina electrical panel.
Another way to bond them is to make a dummy plug with the N and G connected. It's just a male 3 wire plug with the N and G wired together, no other wires in it. The generator has two outlets, plug the dummy into one and your connecting cable in the other. No need to modify your cable or generator that way. This applies to any portable generator, I'm using it on a Predator.

[sailorboy1]

[Pete7]

I think its called "neutral earth bonding". Without it, if you have a residual current device (RCD or sometimes called RCCB, RCBO) down stream from the generator it won't work properly in the event of a fault. So leave it alone or replace with a jumper on the yacht. However, if you do occasionally use shore power, what are you going to do then?

Pete

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I think its called "neutral earth bonding". Without it, if you have a residual current device (RCD or sometimes called RCCB, RCBO) down stream from the generator it won't work properly in the event of a fault. So leave it alone or replace with a jumper on the yacht. However, if you do occasionally use shore power, what are you going to do then?

Pete

The RCBO will work in either scenario . The only flyine rcbo won’t work is when there no return circuit possible in which case you can’t get a shock in the first place.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Anyone think of any reason to NOT do this?

Not unless you're running two generators in parallel or anticipate powering a house or something where the ground and neutral are bonded in the panel. I would put on a label or something saying that you've done that on there.



The reason the ground is lifted on generators sold at retail is to retain single point grounding when a transfer switch is used to connect them as an auxiliary power source for a house or other building that has utility power. Under those circumstances, having the neutral bonded at the generator could lead to a voltage difference between the generator and nearby grounded items, creating a hazard.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The reason the ground is lifted on generators sold at retail is to retain single point grounding when a transfer switch is used to connect them as an auxiliary power source for a house or other building that has utility power. Under those circumstances, having the neutral bonded at the generator could lead to a voltage difference between the generator and nearby grounded items, creating a hazard.

Just pondering this with our calorifier. Potentially we could run it off the inverter. However, the inverter AC output is neutral earth bonded, so plugging it into the yachts shore power connection could be a problem as the yachts earth (ground) is also connected to the DC negative and the hull anode leading to two earth paths.

I may need to fit a double pole switch to just the calorifier circuit so that on inverter power its isolated from the rest of the yacht and when on shore power, completely isolated from the inverter and its neutral earth bonding. This diagram in Sterling's inverter manual is quite good at explaining neutral earth bonding on a European yacht. Not sure if it also applies to a US wired yacht.

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The RCBO will work in either scenario . The only flyine rcbo won’t work is when there no return circuit possible in which case you can’t get a shock in the first place.

Oops, confession time. I used the words "centre tapped" in my post no 5 which you quoted. I actually meant neutral earth bonding. I have edited my post to reflect the correction needed.

[Jammer]

Yes, that problem exists on yachts wired to US standards too. It is most often solved by using a two-pole transfer switch, as you describe.

[sailorboy1]

Maybe some Honda users will come along and the thread will go back to the topic. Nothing in my question is changing anything on the boat system just the Honda.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Maybe some Honda users will come along and the thread will go back to the topic. Nothing in my question is changing anything on the boat system just the Honda.

I see no reason not to jumper the backside of the outlet on the generator, there is no difference between this and jumpin g tue neutral and earth in the attaching plug.

Although I will admit I really do like another posters idea to just build a jumpered plug to leave in the generator independent of the cord leading into the boat.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Maybe some Honda users will come along and the thread will go back to the topic.

We did own a Honda, sold it when solar replaced it.

Suggest you buy a better quality plug rather than cheap rubbish.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Pete7

We did own a Honda, sold it when solar replaced it.

Suggest you buy a better quality plug rather than cheap rubbish.

Thanks, that was helpful.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

I

Although I will admit I really do like another posters idea to just build a jumpered plug to leave in the generator independent of the cord leading into the boat.

On rereading the original post, that may be what he was using, but I assumed at the time he jumped the terminals in the connecting cable plug. That's how I originally set mine up, but it was too many wires for the clamp screws in the plug, they came apart a couple times. The dummy plug plug cured that, only one wire in each clamp.