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Old 03-05-2021, 07:37   #46
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

Youíll need to install a soft start for it to work and the AC will be the only thing you can operate or rather one thing at a time.

Hereís some real world (not armchair) advice. Youíll find you donít need air con once youíre out here. When youíre in a marina youíll need it but hey thereís shore power for that purpose.

I have a 2200w generator made by ryobi that I use far less than I thought I would. It never worked for my air con and I never bothered to address that once I actually started cruising. Itís only used as back up battery charging for cloudy weeks.

The people implying youíll ruin their experience if you run a generator near them obviously arenít out here full time. Almost everyone out here has one and most run them mid day to top off the house bank. So youíll be surrounded by plenty of people running gen sets I assure you.

Speaking of noise pollution. I would find it impossible to sleep on my boat with my generator running. Main reason is the remote possibility of not waking up and the other is the noise. These units are quite when used on solid ground but resonate the boat hull making them really noisy inside the boat. Hereís another trick thatís sure to get people yelling about safety I run mine in the cockpit (no one is napping!) to reduce the audible perimeter and the noise inside the boat. I have hopped in the dinghy and determined in a typical mooring field itís impossible to hear my unit running on a neighbors boat.

Save your money and buy the Honda or at least cruise before you decide what to spend the money on. For example a decent sized solar array and MPPT controller can be had for the cost of a small generator (which you should still buy) and itís far more effective.

Oh and you need to bond the neutral and ground by taking an Edison plug and jumping the neutral and ground together. Then plug this into the unused outlet. Youíll also need to ground the Generator (most donít) to the DC grounding buss on the boat. This is super easy to do and most generators have a wing nut for this purpose. Store the fuel properly and I run mine dry so the tank is empty when I return it to the locker.

Check your zincs regularly once you start using one of these units and really I recommend you pay a pro for an electrical audit of the boat. Surveys are not the same as an audit and rarely does a survey reveal issues youíll experience in the first year of ownership. Crevice corrosion is a real threat and dependent on the part attacked it can end a trip or blow a budget. You can find a list of certified techs in your area via the ABYC website.

Last one, Iím ABYC certified but that doesnít mean you shouldnít double check any advice you get from me or others especially since every boat has a unique set of circumstances and itís impossible to give any advice via the web that doesnít involve starting with a bare boat.
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:48   #47
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

Interesting other than the Hot shot Canadian. bad attitude. My boat has no room for a build in generator. I own several generators (don't ask why ) which include a honda 3000 electric start and a Westinghouse 2600 construction model with a GFCI. Like A Honda 2200. For courtesy I won't run the Westinghouse anywhere near other boats even though it just a touch louder that a 2200. You can still hear them across the anchorage as they run on full speed with the compressor on. Plenty of power to start and run the A/C though when alone.. The Honda3000 is a much better and quieter unit but very heavy. I really like this unit but its hard to move around as i put my generators on the swim platform which is separate from the cockpit. What ever you choose just be careful of a short to the water and be respectful. We all love the peace and quiet on the hook. And yes I just ordered the 1000 feet of #8 with two 50# Mantis anchors so I won't drag.
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:51   #48
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

And to those that sleep without a/c God bless you. I can when alone but can't when the Admiral is on board in the summer because she lets me know how hot it is about every 5 minutes. hahahaha
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:08   #49
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

Stay away from the Honda generators. I was a dedicated Honda fan all my life but will never buy anything else from them ever again. I had two and both were crap from out of the box until their early demise. Honda wouldn't cover the work they did, they tried to midasize me and blamed the problems on user error. There was no error.
I have a Yamaha 2200 and totally love it.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:19   #50
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

For a few thousand dollars buy the Honda EU2200 AND a ďcompanionĒ Honda 2200 generator. They link together with a plug when you need to power a small city. When you need less, just pull up one Honda and leave the other.

They are relatively light with a nice handle. Guessing from my own experience they weigh close to 45-50 lbs each. They stow easily. You can get a waterproof cover from Honda.

Not as swanky as throwing $15,000 on a Fischer Panda but they run great and you can take them with you for winter power outages or barbecue/camping adventures. Portable has benefits, including taking to a Honda dealer for the occasional repair instead of paying out the nose for a tech to come to your boat.

Just be sure when running them that they are outside and secured to the stern rail or other downwind safe spot. Do not try to install in cabin area etc.

We cruise a lot and love our pair of Hondas. They are the least noisy of the comparable portable options and put out a great sine wave of power to run fussy devices. Not an option for us in a crowded anchorage but perfect for the right time and place.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:20   #51
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

Quote:
Originally Posted by Letterkenny View Post
How do you store your Honda on board?
A very important consideration since it is gasoline. Which means the more important question is where do you store your gasoline.

The aka of a large trimaran contain storage areas that are vented and drain.

If your vessel has a vented lazarette in the cockpit that should be fine too. Make sure there are no wire paths that are unsealed into your cabins.

If you don't have a lazarette large enough you may need to make one.

Gasoline storage on deck in jerry cans for others is the only acceptable alternative in my book. This in turn means that Honda must be stored under a good cover on deck too.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:32   #52
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

Part of this conundrum is the fuel type question - many boaters try hard to avoid having petrol/gasoline on board for safety and (perhaps) environmental protection reasons. Diesel is obviously much safer (less flammable) and LPG is (somewhat) more eco friendly. Honda and similar portable generators run on petrol/gasoline - as do most outboard engines, although some are dual-fuel capable with LPG and there are a few small LPG outboard engines around (e.g. 5hp Mercury and Tohatsu). Part of the rationale of having a diesel genset has generally been that it uses the same diesel fuel as your hull engines and is economic with it. Especially given the rise of electric outboards such as the Torqeedo range and ever more affordable solar panels, many boaters have chosen to get rid of their petrol outboards thereby eliminating the need to carry petrol/gasoline on board. The smallest diesel gen sets I have heard of are in the 3.5kW range - maybe you just need to shop around a bit?
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:16   #53
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

Whatís actually wrong with the Panda?
I know an expensive quote, but what was the work required?
Maybe a cheaper way to fix the Panda, would be my first thought
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Old 03-05-2021, 10:48   #54
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

I would recommend a soft start when running a/c on generator or inverter. I have run units your size and larger from a 5kw inverter, which would trip out without the softstart. If you have a large enough house battery and inverter aboard, maybe you could run the a/c on that and keep up the battery with the Honda, as needed.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:06   #55
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

Gulfportbob, my boat is not far away from yours as it's in St. Pete. I am presently having my FP 12 mini repaired and have some good news concerning FP. So far in 5 1/2 years of ownership all problems with the generator are with the Kubota engine. I am not blaming Kubota as being of poor quality, but rack it up as a tough place to run an engine (at 3600 rpm) as it's installed by the boat's manufacture under the floor to save space. Adding in the salt water cooling and the sound shield, it's a tough place to work. As I have had to have the cylinder head removed & machined, the valves and the exhaust elbow replaced, it has not been a lot of fun or inexpensive.

In your case I believe the engine on your FP is a single cylinder Frayrman, which seems not to be the best choice as a engine. I also believe that FP now uses a single cylinder Kubota. I also agree that it would be better if you chose to keep a diesel generator to go with a new unit.

I am sure you have read all the posts concerning the various issues with using a gasoline generator on a boat. I will add one more, try to find anywhere in the Honda manual or any other gasoline generator manual where they approve of it's use on a boat.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:35   #56
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcon12000 View Post
You’ll need to install a soft start for it to work and the AC will be the only thing you can operate or rather one thing at a time.

Here’s some real world (not armchair) advice. You’ll find you don’t need air con once you’re out here. When you’re in a marina you’ll need it but hey there’s shore power for that purpose.

I have a 2200w generator made by ryobi that I use far less than I thought I would. It never worked for my air con and I never bothered to address that once I actually started cruising. It’s only used as back up battery charging for cloudy weeks.

The people implying you’ll ruin their experience if you run a generator near them obviously aren’t out here full time. Almost everyone out here has one and most run them mid day to top off the house bank. So you’ll be surrounded by plenty of people running gen sets I assure you.

Speaking of noise pollution. I would find it impossible to sleep on my boat with my generator running. Main reason is the remote possibility of not waking up and the other is the noise. These units are quite when used on solid ground but resonate the boat hull making them really noisy inside the boat. Here’s another trick that’s sure to get people yelling about safety I run mine in the cockpit (no one is napping!) to reduce the audible perimeter and the noise inside the boat. I have hopped in the dinghy and determined in a typical mooring field it’s impossible to hear my unit running on a neighbors boat.

Save your money and buy the Honda or at least cruise before you decide what to spend the money on. For example a decent sized solar array and MPPT controller can be had for the cost of a small generator (which you should still buy) and it’s far more effective.

Oh and you need to bond the neutral and ground by taking an Edison plug and jumping the neutral and ground together. Then plug this into the unused outlet. You’ll also need to ground the Generator (most don’t) to the DC grounding buss on the boat. This is super easy to do and most generators have a wing nut for this purpose. Store the fuel properly and I run mine dry so the tank is empty when I return it to the locker.

Check your zincs regularly once you start using one of these units and really I recommend you pay a pro for an electrical audit of the boat. Surveys are not the same as an audit and rarely does a survey reveal issues you’ll experience in the first year of ownership. Crevice corrosion is a real threat and dependent on the part attacked it can end a trip or blow a budget. You can find a list of certified techs in your area via the ABYC website.

Last one, I’m ABYC certified but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t double check any advice you get from me or others especially since every boat has a unique set of circumstances and it’s impossible to give any advice via the web that doesn’t involve starting with a bare boat.
Thanks for the sane advice. I'm in the same situation as the OP, diesel gen-set is out and new Honda at hand.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:35   #57
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

$15k buys a lot of solar and batteries. I've got the luxury of lots of roof space so am going total overkill with panels and Lifepo4. Big alternator(s) would be another option if you can't. An elcheapo genset provides back up if there is no sun for a week. Now no noise, fuel, storage, or maintenance issues and the Admiral doesn't have to play load Tetris deciding between making a coffee or running a hot plate
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:13   #58
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

We have a Honda EU2200i and it will start and run a Cruise Air 16kbtu. Most times it will even start with Eco on, but not always. We only run a couple of times for aircon because it doesn't last but 3.5 hours or so on a full tank (0.9 gallons) and it's noisy at that load level. If we 'must' we ensure we are anchored downwind from other boats.
CO monitors in every cabin and salon.
You or your loved ones don't want to wake up dead.
All these people harping about gasoline, how do you run your outboard on your dingy?
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:27   #59
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

Quote:
Originally Posted by GulfportBarb View Post
Sorry to bring this up, I have searched the threads and need more clarification. We just found out our Fischer Panda PMS 4200 FCB 3.8kW generator on our new to us 2006 Jeanneau SO 37 needs a $4-6000 repair. The repair guy said we should just buy a new generator. ($12-15000). Yowser. We just bought this boat. Before we throw money at a new genset, can we buy a Honda 2200i and use it to run our Dometic 16,000 BTU AC while at anchor? Do we need a soft start for the AC unit? Do we need to buy 2 Hondas to run the AC?
It seems like a lot less money than a new FP genset. Thanks for your thoughts.
If you would like a second opinion or estimate, here's a guy in the Lauderdale area that actually likes working on FPs:
Ramond Paul Osbourn (954) 914-6449
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Old 03-05-2021, 13:19   #60
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Re: Honda 2200i vs Fischer Panda Genset

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Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
Not all of us are millionaires. The question is more like "how do I keep from getting price gouged by marine generators that are so insanely expensive they cost about 10 times as much as a portable generator?"

A proper heavy duty low speed marine generator is worth more than 10x as much as portable generator. Maybe 20x, actually.
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