Help with LiTime batteries

[freshalaska]

Just received two 12volt 180AH lithium batteries from LiTime. Received they read 13.11 volts. Owners manual said to completely charge them before putting in service. I put each individually on a Victron lithium charger 12 volts and when the charger stopped charging and let rest for 12 hours they read 12.87
Volts. This doesn’t make sense to me and LiTime customer service says the batteries are okay. I need to at least to get the to a 50 percent state of charge because they will just sit all winter before being placed next year in service.
What do you think.

[freshalaska]

My mistake batteries are 280AH.

[CatLove]

Is the Victron charger working correctly or at all?
What did each battery read when the charger stopped charging, not 12h later?
What does each read right now?
Are these batteries a self heating model?
Is this happening in Alaska at low temp ?

[Ken Fry]

I've been fooling around with LiFePo cells for more than a decade, yet am no expert. However, in my experience, most LiFePo battery charge levels can be fairly reliably indicated by rest voltage (after a rest of say three days). Voltage alone will not accurately discriminate between 80% charge and 90%, but will always, in my experience, discriminate between 50% charge and 90%.

I suspect that either your voltmeter is at fault (all too common) or the battery is faulty.

Every good cell I have owned has held its charge for months without large drops in voltage, and I have never experienced a cell getting lower in voltage as a result of charging.

I'd expect a rest voltage of about 13.6 for a fully charged "12v" LiFePo.

[CatLove]

Originally Posted by Ken Fry

I've been fooling around with LiFePo cells for more than a decade, yet am no expert. However, in my experience, most LiFePo battery charge levels can be fairly reliably indicated by rest voltage (after a rest of say three days). Voltage alone will not accurately discriminate between 80% charge and 90%, but will always, in my experience, discriminate between 50% charge and 90%.

I suspect that either your voltmeter is at fault (all too common) or the battery is faulty.

Every good cell I have owned has held its charge for months without large drops in voltage, and I have never experienced a cell getting lower in voltage as a result of charging.

I'd expect a rest voltage of about 13.6 for a fully charged "12v" LiFePo.

The OP didn't specify what voltage each battery read at the moment charging stopped, he only said what it was after 12h . A self heating battery in Alaska might draw current by turning on its internal heater therefore showing a lower voltage 12h later.
Also he didn't state what each battery was reading ,he only made some generic statement as if they were all identical.
I doubt bad batteries read each the same exact voltage to the millivolt, after being charged and left 12h.
Good batteries perfect balance and matching, yes , may read identical values.
Faulty voltmeter , not that likely, because even an out of cal instrument still reads higher values for higher input voltages, I haven't seen one yet that reads lower voltage when the input is actually higher.

[Tin Tin]

To be helpful we need to know volatge when initially connected to charger when it was turned on, and end of charging before disconnection, and then imediately after disconnection. For all we know the charger was connected with wrong polarity or it is just faulty. What model of Victron charger was it?

[freshalaska]

Ambient temperatures have been 33 degree's at night to 45 to 50 in the day. Battery does not have a heater. Checked with a second volt meter and am getting very close to the same reading. First battery charged to full has now dropped .02 volts two days later. Don’t know what the voltage was when battery stopped charging because I wasn’t there to record it. When charging I did see a voltage as high as 14.2. So I would assume charger is at least working to some degree.

[freshalaska]

Just read the standing voltages with no load at all.
Battery 1 read 12.75 and with different meter 12.82
Battery 2 read 12.77 and different meter 12.84 volts.
How does charging a battery decrees voltage when no load is applied.
13.11 before 12.87 after.
This is a ip65 Victron blue smart charger. Brand new and never used until now.

[CatLove]

I wouldn't presume the charger to be good just because it's brand new. It should be tested before being declared good.
Victron and other forums are full of complaints about this charger , both hardware and firmware bugs leading to very serious faults.

[freshalaska]

While charging that voltage at one point was 14.2. Seems like charger is putting out something.

[Ken Fry]

A clamp-on DC ammeter is invaluable for assessing the charging process. With that battery size and low state of charge, the current at start of charge should be close to the maximum charger rating, unless the charger is huge. (Your batteries would easily draw 25 amps, for example) I've found the Victron app to work pretty well, but it is useful to check both current and voltage with devices of known accuracy. The app is used to setup the Victron chargers for battery type. If the charger is set up for lead acid, then the voltages you see would be expected.

For the initial charge, and until you have verified that the batteries are OK (if they are) then putting them in a temperature controlled environment will rule out the BMS causing a low temperature cutout. During a low temp cutout, the battery input could read 14.2 volts while delivering 0 amps.

I find a lab power supply more useful than a pre-packaged charger for testing batteries and initializing batteries.

[wholybee]

Noting current during charging is important too. One possibility is that the batteries BMS disconnected due to some fault, either overcharge, or a cell overcharge. Some BMS's can produce weird voltages when this happens, because the volt meter doesn't present any load.

I would connect them to something to put a load of a couple amps on them. Then see what the volt meter reads while they are powering it. With luck, the BMS will turn back on, and you will see greater than 14V. Anything greater than 13.8V after sitting for 24 hours can be considered fully charged.

[CatLove]

A quick search found these:


https://community.victronenergy.com/...mware-bug/5863


https://energytalk.co.za/t/victron-b...to-absorb/4871


https://community.victronenergy.com/...d-absorb/43281


https://community.victronenergy.com/...e-update/20197


So while it outputs some voltage, it may or may not be charging the battery.
On Amazon it has a 14-16% one star rating, worst of all Victron products. All sound the same, no charge, switching from bulk to absorption or skipping bulk and going directly to absorption, outputting very low current, not charging , firmware bug etc.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by CatLove

A quick search found these:


https://community.victronenergy.com/...mware-bug/5863


https://energytalk.co.za/t/victron-b...to-absorb/4871


https://community.victronenergy.com/...d-absorb/43281


https://community.victronenergy.com/...e-update/20197


So while it outputs some voltage, it may or may not be charging the battery.
On Amazon it has a 14-16% one star rating, worst of all Victron products. All sound the same, no charge, switching from bulk to absorption or skipping bulk and going directly to absorption, outputting very low current, not charging , firmware bug etc.

I have that charger and it works fine. If it (or any charger) reads 14+ volts while connected to the battery that was at 13.1 before connection, it's charging just fine.

[sailorboy1]

new batteries that the manufacturer says are fine and for which the OP has not done any capacity test far as I can tell to indicate otherwise

this all feels like much to do about nothing!