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12-03-2016, 16:24
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Boat: Sceptre 36
Posts: 454
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GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
I have been ordered by my insurance company to install GFCI in galley and head. Just tried in the galley and failed. There is just not enough room in the electrical box for the outlet and wires. Wires are supposed to be attached to captive rings on the plug but this cannot work due to space limitations. The ring connectors stick out the side and break off when trying to bend flat to go in the box. One option is to solder the ends of the multi strand wire and install as per house wiring. Is this acceptable practice?
Another option would to put a master Ground Fault breaker on the 110 volt system but how and where?
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12-03-2016, 16:31
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,705
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
If you can interrupt the wiring somewhere between the panel AC breaker and the galley outlet, find another place to install an outlet (receptacle) in that wiring. Then that GFCI will protect everything downstream from it.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
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12-03-2016, 16:41
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Boat: Sceptre 36
Posts: 454
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
Brilliant, thank you.
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12-03-2016, 16:48
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,705
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
You're very welcome. Enjoy. My f-i-l lives in Cowichan Bay and we get up your way by ferry & car often. Lovely place.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
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12-03-2016, 17:49
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Boat: Sceptre 36
Posts: 454
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
Is it acceptable to solder the ends of the multi strand wire rather than use captive rings? It seems that the rings are the main problem I am having.
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13-03-2016, 08:34
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 664
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
You can also replace your 110 breaker with a GFCI breaker and have the same benefits with out having to install a new GFCI outlet.
I used rings on my GFCI outlet's side screws. You have to back them out which they may not want to be, but it works fine assuming you have the length of wire to be able to work on it. I put mine on the side, not sicking straight back because of the room issue. I eventually want to go to a GFCI breaker to cover the whole boat.
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13-03-2016, 08:38
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#7
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Aboard
Boat: Seaton 60' Ketch
Posts: 1,339
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
Captive spades meet all codes and work much more easily...
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Scott Berg
WAØLSS
SV CHARDONNAY
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13-03-2016, 10:06
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Canada, North Channel of Lake Huron
Boat: Pilgrim 40
Posts: 234
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
ABYC since 2010 recommends ELCI at main AC panel. This one is a Carling, but other manufacturers also have them (BlueSea)
__________________
Some days you step in it ............... some days you don't.
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13-03-2016, 10:12
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 46
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
They make outlet box extenders that attach to the front of the box, they are about 1/2 thick. most hardware stores carry them.
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13-03-2016, 10:24
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Boat: Sceptre 36
Posts: 454
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
Bought a box extender, it stopped the galley cabinet from opening. Wired with captive spade connectors but they stuck out just enough to stop the unit going in the box. In trying to lay them more flush, several broke. Just soldered all the wire ends and when the weather improves will complete. Thank you all.
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13-03-2016, 11:47
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
I think just for shits and giggles, you may consider putting all your AC outlets on GFIs. Finding a path to ground aboard " ain't that hard ". If you have room put in a small breaker panel and run all your AC through it. It would cost peanuts. JMHO
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13-03-2016, 13:31
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Spencer 53 Cutter
Posts: 7
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitpik
ABYC since 2010 recommends ELCI at main AC panel. This one is a Carling, but other manufacturers also have them (BlueSea)
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ELCI Electronic Circuit Interruptor breakers are installed at the point where shorepower enters the boat typically before it reaches the main panel and within 5 ft of shorepower plug. By design they trip at 30mA of current. More to protect against stray current entering the water around the boat.
GFCI Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor protects the end user at the outlets. By design they trip at 5mA of current. Protects the end user of whatever device is plugged into an outlet.
It only takes 5mA of current to kill a person so the ELCI doesn't protect you like a GFCI does. So I have installed both on my boat.
Use the captive spade connector with a solid crimp, though soldering the multi strand wire will fulfill ABYC, it is not the best connection. Find another spot on the boat as recommended above and install an accessible GFCI outlet and then run wire from that to your other outlet, or go to a master GFCI breaker for your panel. And install an ELCI for your incoming shorepower if you do not have an Isolation Transformer.
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13-03-2016, 13:49
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Boat: Sceptre 36
Posts: 454
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
This is all retrofits in a 1985 boat. Not going to move the outlets, not going to rebuild the cabinets. Just trying to meet the demands of the insurance company. I argued that codes are not retroactive, lost the argument. Agree with all the comments and suggestions but not all practical without serious money and upgrades. Thank you.
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13-03-2016, 16:14
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 3,101
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
You can replace the AC breaker in your breaker box with a GFI breaker. Costs a bit more, but fits in the same space. Makes the whole circuit GF tolerant. I think they are blue around here.
On my 1974 Pearson, and several other previous boats, I removed ALL the AC wiring entirely. I don't need a mocrowave oven or a toaster on my boat.
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13-03-2016, 16:28
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Boat: Sceptre 36
Posts: 454
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Re: GFCI - Ground Fault Breaker
Have not found one that would fit without re-doing the entire AC panel.
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