Genset Review : Pramac s5500

[Alan Wheeler]

Thread shifts are what happens when you play with gravitation

So, is that new genset water or air cooled

[ssullivan]

The new genset doesn't need cooling since it's suspended by a magnetic field in the shape of a Klein bottle.

[CaptainK]

Ha Ha Ha.

Good one Sean. Good one.

[Strygaldwir]

Back to mondane issues.

How much does the yanmar weigh? What did you do with the old genset? Did the manufacturer honor any warrenty?

Remember oh, about 35 years ago when Japanese was equited to poor quality, shoddy workmanship, inefficiency and just plain problems? You think the chinese won't get their act together??? I'll bet any problems are short lived. Remember the din we made when we, in the US, thought the Japanese were buying all the property, and were going to competitively destroy the US economy. Well, most of the endemic problems that caused the Japanese machine to run out of fuel, are not an issue in the Chinese economy.The times are about to get much more interesting.

Keith

[hellosailor]

The Middle Kingdom is very different from the land of the Sun God. I don't recall Japan having the endemic problems that China has, i.e mass counterfeiting, piracy, forgery, and a general "screw the barbarians" mentality. Not that Japanese production didn't have its problems, but the two nations have very different cultures, and in many ways China has been content to give the lowlife what we ask for: The cheapest possible goods, and stick it to us on anything else.
That might change if China wants a larger place in the global economy...but there is so much that is in flux in China, so many internal problems there, who knows what will happen or how quickly.

"The times are about to get much more interesting." You're aware I take it of the Chinese dual meaning of "interesting times" ?

[ssullivan]

The new Pramac weights in at 200lbs or so. Same as the China Diesel. In fact, the China diesel is a knock off of the Pramac. The look-alike Chinese genset looks very similar, but once you start looking at things like the fuel lines, and the casting of the case on the Yanmar engine copy, you can see the difference.

I couldn't do any warranty since the genset is my only source of power. I had no time for a warranty. Food was going bad... charters were coming, etc...

I gave the old genset away to somone who thought they might be able to fix it. Free.

[Strygaldwir]

Japan has had a limited amount of natural resources. They import a very significant amount of their raw materials. They are more space constrained. The Japanese islands are a VERY small land mass as nation size goes. There are far more issues with waste disposal, worker housing, factory placement, logistical movements etc... At least those were some of the issues I found when I was doing some consulting there.

Counterfeiting, piracy and forgery I'd concider to be synonyms. They are more legal and I am not certain how they relate to the manufacturing capacity of the country.

Originally, if memory serves Japanese competed on price until they were more able to compete in quality. I recall many durogatory remarks about "cheap Jap" cars, thin, cheap steel, etc, etc. The point is, by studying manufacutring methods of other countries, they were able to resolve the quality issues. They automated their factories, emphasized quality and team work and produced world class products.

China is taking a very LARGE place in the global economy, look at the US trade balance with China. Look who holds most of the US Treasuries notes! It is stuff to make you go sailing!!!

China's internal problems... hmmm.... Don't we all have them??? If we look at Germany in the 1930's they had significant internal problems. They did not adversely affect there manufacturing capacity. Well, at least until their factories were reduced to rubble.

It seems like most of the chinese and taiwanese people that I have meet have been very monetarily focused and were willing to work very hard at aquiring monetary prosperity. Historically communistic values has been one of the issues that have contributed to Chinas underdevelopment. I think the Chinese central government has discovered that to be true and has taken steps to alleiviate MANY of the issues.

Well, time will tell. I am rather glad I won't be arround when China take it's place as the manufacuring "Super Power"

[muskoka]

China already is a manufacturing superpower - and they make a lot of marine equipment, and gensets - which is what this thread was about...

Cheers.

[Moby Dick]

Back to the important issues:

- the speed of light is only 186,000 MH in VACUUM. Less in glass, water and much less in exotic materials such as a BEC.
- Matter only appears to an outside observer not to reach the black hole. It does from the 'point of view' of the matter. See http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/htmltest...q.html#forever

if you want more.

[Alan Wheeler]

The "china syndrome" is going to grow bigger and bigger. It's inevitable and we have had the cheap knock offs from around the world here in NZ for years. It has sent many a NZ company under, as they simply can't compeate. But it does swing around. You buy something cheap, to find it doesn't last and finaly you buy the "real" thing. We are slowly seeing that trend in NZ. The companies that specialised in cheap crap are now starting to upmarket their products because they make no money in the end with the cheap garbage. It takes awhile for it to sink into the consumers heads, but it does eventually.
Although, I also have to say, when you are faced with something like say, a Genset that would cost NZ$20K, (that is like 6months wages for a really well paid Kiwi) and a cheap Chinese knock off for NZ$2K, which would you tend to lean toward. The other issue is, many of the reputable brand names are now manufacturing in China. The same plant then makes a "chinese Sumsong" brand version of the thing, often using the exact same plant. Sometimes it is the same parts, sometimes it is an inferior product material copy. Maybe the metal being used isn't quite upto scratch. Sometimes it is parts that didn't quite make the grade in QC and on sold as something cheaper. No one is ever going to be able to stop it from happening. The only way it ever will, is for us to buy the quality and not the cheap rubbish, so as the big companies can remain in business. But also, unless the reputable companies drop their prices, I am never going to be able to afforsd a $20K genset for instance and I can ever only hope for a $2K one. Maybe it will last me a couple of seasons, maybe a "real one will last me 20years, but I can buy 20 cheapies for the price of one goody over and get the same life time of use.
Am I making sense???? Of course not!!!. I don't think the is a true answer to all this.

[ssullivan]

Yes, it's complicated, Wheels. I found the Italian Pramac (they make RACE CARS!!) to be a good compromise between affordability and reliability.

China: The big thing I worry about is the sheer amount of pollution they are now putting out. They have eclipsed all of us in pollution production, and they're not even close to fully "westernized" yet. We are registering their pollution in scientific instruments in CA now. There are cities there now where the sun is permanently blocked to some degree. They use coal fired plants for everything.... and use cheap coal to boot... with no type of scrubber or anything to keep the polution down. I get all this from a NY Times article I read recently on the topic.

Go sailing now..... before it's all gone.

[muskoka]

Yes there are local brands which are crap knock-offs but an incredible amount of international quality, name brand products are made in China (or other SE Asian countries). You'd probably be amazed at how much of the high end products which you own / covet are manufactured there without the consumer even knowing it. Manufacturers - 'quality' or cheapo - will always source manufacturing & assembly from the cheapest markets. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

And yup, the pollution and environmental degredation is grim. If they don't address that soon it's going to have a very negative effect on their future growth. Their strategy for hosting the Olympics is to shut down all manufacturing & construction for a number of weeks beforehand!!!

Cheers.

[Jonathan Eells]

Hey all,

SO... How's that Pramac treating you these days?

jwe