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Old 25-11-2021, 18:37   #16
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

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Originally Posted by scottmc59 View Post
I'm trying to figure out the best options for solar panels. Flexible ones sewn into the Bimini seems to be the most practical. Some tell me flexible kind don't work as well. Anyone have experience with them?
I hear bad things about flexible, not so much regarding semi-flexible.
Our experience is three semi-flexible panels mounted on our curved equipment arch. Most people don't realise they are there, which is the way we like it. Rigid, framed panels are not an option for us, as we don't like the aesthetic of big rigid panels hanging off the back of the boat.

I installed our panels in 2014, and they are still outputting to my satisfaction (I clean and polish the clear coating at the beginning of each season).
We are also looking to add four larger semi-flexibles to the bimini top - hopefully only one at most will be shaded at any time. Fixing will be either by studs or zipper strips (possibly studs, as concerned re the degradation of the zippers in the UV).

I was concerned our panels may flutter or vibrate in certain winds, but they just sit there, and in gusting 70 knts even, have never seen them move, or heard them scream.
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Old 25-11-2021, 19:39   #17
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

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I'm trying to figure out the best options for solar panels. Flexible ones sewn into the Bimini seems to be the most practical. Some tell me flexible kind don't work as well. Anyone have experience with them?
my experience with expensive flexible panels was not good. I attached them to a semi flexible sheet to give them protection, sewed zips to them and constructed a canvas ‘frame’ sewed to the Bimini. A lot of time and effort but they failed in just over a year in a sub tropical climate. The connection to the panels was attached using a sticky pad which, in the heat, moved a tiny amount but sufficient to allow water ingress to the contacts.
The suppliers eventually offered me two new panels for the price of one but I did not accept this out of principle - they really were not fit for purpose.
I have since fitted hard panels which although not as attractive, 2 years in are still working well.
In my mind there in no question as to the right way to go - you want to be able to rely on them do not go flexible.
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Old 26-11-2021, 06:58   #18
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

i did the hard panels and you hardly notice them the way i mounted them.
abe
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Old 03-12-2021, 06:41   #19
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

Very few flexible solar panel manufactures, recommend installing their panels on flexing surfaces.
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Old 03-12-2021, 07:14   #20
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

Quoting from my own thread about my choice for flexible panels:

“For solar panels I decided to take a different route than most and purchase CIGS panels. CIGS stands for copper indium gallium selenide. These panels use a different chemistry than typical silicon based panels, and as such they have different properties. To start, the panels are made from a thin continuous film of the PV material that is usually mounted on a flexible substrate; meaning unlike silicon wafer based panels they can actually flex or be walked on without risk of damage. They can be rolled for storage without damage. They are still very lightweight and low profile.

Because they are not individual cells and are instead a continuous film, they have many many many ‘bypass diodes’ (I am not sure they are actually bypass diodes in this case). This means they handle shading extremely well. In my tests with a single 50W panel, shading any percentage of the panel would result in a similar percentage of decreased output. The orientation or area of shading is not important, meaning a boom hanging over the array will not kill the whole output, and will instead have a minimal effect on output, proportional to the area it shades.

Performance while partially shaded was a big motivation in selecting these panels as it is my hope they will still perform well when sailing. Only time will tell but I will happily share my results.

Weight was also a large consideration.

Unfortunately the only CIGS panels I could cheaply get my hands on are 50 watts from a company called MiaSole, via Amazon. They cost about $86 US each shipped. I will simply use a lot to build a sizable array (I hope to fit 28 panels on the Bimini). I tried contacting multiple CIGS manufacturers and could not get a hold of a single one to order larger or custom panels. I will start with an 8 panel install and test for performance before ordering more.”

I haven’t met or seen anyone discussing using these panels on a boat but I don’t see why they couldn’t perform well. I will know soon how efficient my installation is.

Jack
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Old 03-12-2021, 09:41   #21
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

I replaced my fabric bimini with 3 pieces of starboard. Then mounted a 100w PV flex panel to each.
I wanted the starboard to increase the density of shade. It was hot under the fabric shade.
Now that its a curved rigid surface, flex PV panels are well suited and long lasting so far.
The fact that its 3 panels makes removal and stowage easy.
With increasing efficiency over time, I expect to be able to put 3x 150w panels in the future.
Panels are only about $125US each, held on by a few bolts, so easy swap.
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Old 03-12-2021, 10:03   #22
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

It isn't unusual for those with ridged panels support that technology and those with flex panels support theirs.

Solar panels change, probably yearly as technology improves.

Any cheap panel will probably disappoint you, whether ridged or flex.

Go to eMarine (https://www.emarineinc.com/) online and see what a company that sells both has to say.

Often the type panels you install will depend on where you are installing them.

BTW, the output is not only dependent on the panel it also involves the controller and wiring. A cheap job in any aspect of a solar installation will leave you unhappy.

IF you'd like specifics on what we installed on our trawler, drop me a PM.

Good luck.
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Old 03-12-2021, 10:13   #23
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

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Originally Posted by Nepidae View Post
It isn't unusual for those with ridged panels support that technology and those with flex panels support theirs.

Solar panels change, probably yearly as technology improves.

Any cheap panel will probably disappoint you, whether ridged or flex.

Go to eMarine (https://www.emarineinc.com/) online and see what a company that sells both has to say.

Often the type panels you install will depend on where you are installing them.

BTW, the output is not only dependent on the panel it also involves the controller and wiring. A cheap job in any aspect of a solar installation will leave you unhappy.

IF you'd like specifics on what we installed on our trawler, drop me a PM.

Good luck.
Agreed, this seems to be the new 'what anchor' thread tread...

To my mind, fit whatever combination of power generation works for you and use the best components you can.
We have a combination of semi- flexible on the bimimi, hard on the davits and wind on the mast and without doubt it could be better, but for various reasons (including the fact that the mizzen shades things ) it works great for us.
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Old 03-12-2021, 11:11   #24
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

Hi
Let have a look at https://www.solar-cloth.fr/sport-plein-air/
It rocks for for us and for racing.
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Old 03-12-2021, 11:18   #25
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

I purchased cheap "Nature Power" semi-flex, walk on panels. Many reviewers cited problems with heat buildup beneath the panels, when attached directly to solid backing. To counter this heating issue, I simply mounted each panel on 8mm thick, dual walled poly glazing such as used for greenhouses and attached all directly to my cabin top. The glazing allows for adequate ventilation, beneath the panels. Four years later, no heating issues and panels are working fine.
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Old 03-12-2021, 13:10   #26
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Experience with flexible panels, 4 1/2 years in the tropics

In begin 2017 I installed 8 100US$ 100W monocrystalline flexible panels from the Chinese company Sacred Solar. I glued them on the new hard bimini on our catamaran.

After one year the top layer had become cloudy. Because of this the output was reduced by around 25%. But apart from that, they worked fine until 2021.


I have learned that the cloudyness happens because most cheap panels use PET as top layer.
Be sure to choose panels with a top layer of ETFE. This is a fluor based plastic.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETFE
You can also find good information on

https://www.thesolarnerd.com/blog/fl...-panel-review/


This year the top layer, which has also become brittle, started to delaminate from the base layer in some corners.



I am now investigating with what to replace them.
A friend just bought a trimaran with two Sunpower panels. They looked like new after 5 years in the tropics. Sunpower uses ETFE. I guess you could get 10 years of life out of them. This is the minimum I find acceptable.

So 8 of their 110W panels is an option. Or maybe 6 170W panels.
Alternative would be 2 hard panels of around 450W each. This has greater durability but higher weight.
There is a Chinese company LENSUN that claim good durability and uses ETFE. They are a bit heavy due to their fiberglass backing.



Many people mention the reduction of efficiency because of the higher temperature of flexible glued-on panels. Ours are glued on a composite bimini, so well isolated below. I guess they get around 20 degrees centigrade hotter than hard ones with air gap would be. This will reduce peak output with around 6-8 %. However, this is only in case there is plenty of sun, and the output is high. When it is (partially) cloudy the panels will be colder, the efficiency loss is much less. And when it is (partially) cloudy the energy situation is more critical. So I don't worry about this temperature efficiency loss.
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Old 04-12-2021, 09:14   #27
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Re: Experience with flexible panels, 4 1/2 years in the tropics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jef & Marin, Netherlands View Post
I have learned that the cloudyness happens because most cheap panels use PET as top layer.
Be sure to choose panels with a top layer of ETFE. This is a fluor based plastic.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETFE
You can also find good information on
Sadly our experience with ETFE isn't good.

This was a 30w Lensun ETFE panel after 18 months in the UK, so hardly extreme conditions. They replaced it after a long battle and I sold it to a friend who knew the story and promised to only put it outside on nice days. All I wanted was a small extra panel to trickle charge the house battery. Now looking for a small rigid panel instead.

The best one was a Solara second hand in 2008 and finally failed in 2018. Perhaps 15 years old in the end. the only problem is they want £318 for a 27w replacement, which is ridiculous.

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Old 04-12-2021, 09:19   #28
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

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Originally Posted by scottmc59 View Post
I'm trying to figure out the best options for solar panels. Flexible ones sewn into the Bimini seems to be the most practical. Some tell me flexible kind don't work as well. Anyone have experience with them?
I keep a copy of the West Marine catalog near the toilet and have spent a lot of time reading through it.

According to West Marine (and they sell both kinds), rigid solar panels produce considerably more power per square foot than flexible panels. That information would be enough for me to make my choice.

Unless you cannot use rigid panels for some reason, that should be your choice as well.
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Old 04-12-2021, 16:35   #29
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

Pete7, thanks for your your real world experience about Lensun. I found them on the internet. There they try to give the impression of being good quality. Your experience show this may just be marketing blabla.

The failure may be delamination of the top layer from the base. Whether they really use ETFE remains unclear.


I will forget Lensun and other Chinese brands. I might decide for Sunpower flexibles or hard ones. The flexible ones are lighter, and there is more variety in size. On the bimini, I could fit 6*170W flexibles (over 1 kW) or 2 hard ones of around 450W each; 18 kg vs around 50 kg
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Old 05-01-2022, 09:13   #30
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Re: flexible vs rigid solar panels

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I just bought two 70 watt flexible panels and I'm still working out the best way to mount them. What you did looks interesting. Could you post more photos of your set up? Also, do you have both panels wired to a single Victron 75/15, or, do you have two separate MPPTs?
Hi. Sorry for the delay. Been away from the boat and out of cell range when on it.

The panels are wired in series into one Victron 75/15. The 2 greenhouse sheets are connected to the stainless frames with SS electrical conduit holders and large washers on both sides. I put vinyl electrical tape over the doubled edge. The panels are then mounted to the greenhouse sheets. There have been no issues to date with wind gusts up to 40 kn.

Note - the two rigid panels have their own controllers and all panels are Sunpower cells from Custom Marine Products
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