Finalizing s/v Jedi DC diagram

[s/v Jedi]

And then there was v1.4 ... we're really getting close now and we're designing the actual panel so it can be ordered.

The changes for v1.4 have been in the pipeline for a while: this is for powering electronics like NMEA2000, Radar/plotter, VHF/SSB radios etc. Sensitive electronics that do not like surges from starter motors, electric winches etc.

The primary power supply for this is a 24>12V DC-DC converter. Fallback is the 12V battery bank.

I have set this up so that the two 12>24V converters can be used for either function by choosing where to insert a fuse. Also, a 300A battery switch is the only switch I can find that can at least do 30A in a way I trust... please let me know other options as this switch, even though compact, still is big for a panel.

[moseriw]

Alternator to Battery Chaerger. OK What happens when your AC Charger fails?
Got a 7,5 Kw Generator and an 150 Amps Alternator and 2,8 m² solar panels + 720 Ah Trojan batteries

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Alternator to Battery Chaerger. OK What happens when your AC Charger fails?
Got a 7,5 Kw Generator and an 150 Amps Alternator and 2,8 m² solar panels + 720 Ah Trojan batteries

There are three AC battery chargers: the Xantrex 12V charger and two 24V Multiplus units. There are two 24V Victron Solar controllers. There are two 12V alternators. Then there are two 12>24V and two 24>12V DC-DC converters/chargers.

When a charging source fails, there will be backup until it can be replaced.

[moseriw]

OH man - keep it simple. Murphy's law. What can fail - fails.
What I aint got cant fail.

[teneicm]

What is regulating the charge into your start batteries?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by moseriw

OH man - keep it simple. Murphy's law. What can fail - fails.
What I aint got cant fail.

So, what can fail is your single solar controller. How will you charge your batteries when you are out there without anything other than what you brought with you?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by teneicm

What is regulating the charge into your start batteries?

There are multiple charge sources, for different situations and/or as a backup for another source.

So let’s assume we’re at anchor which is most of the time. Here solar controllers charge the 24V house bank. There is a lot of solar energy as the arrays total 1,875W. The 12V starter bank is kept in float charge by a 24>12V DC-DC charger.

Now the most difficult situation: we’re under sail at night. The 12V bank is used by the autopilot drive. There is no power generation at all. The 24V Lithium bank powers the electronics and keeps the 12V bank up with the same DC-DC charger as in the “at anchor” scenario.
When the sun comes up again, the solar arrays will kick in to take over powering everything plus recharging the 24V house bank.

While motoring or motorsailing at night, the engine has a Balmar XT-170 alternator with smart regulator that charges the 12V bank. The 12>24V DC-DC chargers can take up to 60A from that to charge the 24V house bank.

For backup we can start the genset which can power the two Multiplus units to charge the house bank, with the DC-DC converter taking care of the 12V bank. Another backup is the 12V charger.

If I would start over, I would not buy the AC 12V charger but I already have it so that is why it’s there.

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

So, what can fail is your single solar controller. How will you charge your batteries when you are out there without anything other than what you brought with you?

36 Amps Solar and/or up to 36 Amps windgenerator and if all fails chart navigation and no DC at all. Prepaired to run in emergency mode. Even if my electric waterpunp fails... got a mechanical foot pump too.

Do never rely on electrics or electronics.

What if your 5 chargers get a lightning strike????

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by moseriw

36 Amps Solar and/or up to 36 Amps windgenerator and if all fails chart navigation and no DC at all. Prepaired to run in emergency mode. Even if my electric waterpunp fails... got a mechanical foot pump too.

Do never rely on electrics or electronics.

What if your 5 chargers get a lightning strike????

So all you have is solar and windgen? Inyour no DC at all scenario, how do you power your autopilot? I know, you have windvane steering, right? So how do you keep your fridge and freezer going? I know, you eat the beans straight from the can... cold. We have had this discussion on the forum many times. In comes down to this: I’m just a spoiled city brat needing all that outrageous luxury and you are tough as nails

[s/v Jedi]

Here is the draft for the DC main panel.

I have switched the power select for electronics from a 300A battery switch to a Contura switch. These have contacts rated for 20A at 12V so my idea is to get a double pole switch and connect the poles in parallel to handle the max. 30A for this power feed. I just can't afford the space for a huge battery switch.

Next step will be to convert this to a CAD drawing for Front Panel Express and be shocked about the cost for manufacturing it

[teneicm]

OK, got it. Couldn't tell if the DC-DC units were just converters or also chargers.


Why split the lithium into two banks? The charge controllers will effectively see it as only one large bank. Is there a concern about the banks getting out of balance from SOC perspective?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by teneicm

OK, got it. Couldn't tell if the DC-DC units were just converters or also chargers.

Why split the lithium into two banks? The charge controllers will effectively see it as only one large bank. Is there a concern about the banks getting out of balance from SOC perspective?

I’m still working in that, the idea is to create some redundancy. I may change the 2nd bank to a 1p8s setup of 200Ah cells and switch these in parallel with the 8x 400Ah cells with a manual switch for isolating the strings, much like I do for the starter bank. I do not know for sure if the 10kWh bank is big enough for us so I will hold off on bank #2 until I know. For now I still have a Lifeline AGM bank that will be my backup.

[s/v Jedi]

Updated DC Main panel

[dwgans]

Storm Trooper: "These aren't the schematics you're looking for."

Sorry, i'll show myself out.

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

So all you have is solar and windgen? Inyour no DC at all scenario, how do you power your autopilot? I know, you have windvane steering, right? So how do you keep your fridge and freezer going? I know, you eat the beans straight from the can... cold. We have had this discussion on the forum many times. In comes down to this: I’m just a spoiled city brat needing all that outrageous luxury and you are tough as nails

Well- one should always have a plan B,C AND E

OK the question was: What if the A2B charger fails (Yes it is a single point of failure)?
THEN I bypass it and charge directly from the alternator. Will take me 5 minutes time - everything is prepaired.

Charging choices
Solar -
Wind -
Generator
Alternator

btw: what if the Alternator fails?
I have a spare one - airtight sealed on board.

What I want to say - again - is: do not rely on any part you mount as a single source but do not install things as backup that can fail too..

Not easy to do but the main rules are:

KEEP IT SIMPLE
WHAT I DO NOT HAVE CAN NOT FAIL

example: the newest generation of boats do not have fuses and switches at all. Everything is via the 2 Plotters.

Took me 2 times half an hour to find the screen where I could activate the windlass.
Hell I am an IT-Prof (Linux-Servers) but I'll stay of that scrap!

My 1997 Toyota Hiace have not got any electronics and minimum electrics. I will have this car until I die - because of this! Still no problems since 20 years.