Finalizing s/v Jedi AC diagram

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Pretty interesting system you are building. I hope we can hook up to exchange ideas. As I had said via PM, I still need to do the exercise that you are, but feel a 230v inverter/charger is almost certainly going to be a part of it. The main reason is that I can run my watermaker off it for passages if the gen set failed. There are a host of other benefits that aren't as critical.

Before you order your panel, you should look at repurposing mine. I think it has a lot of the basic's that your going after and when I install the Quattro, won't really need it. Last year we removed the second shore power connection and the 12kva generator so those selections are no longer used. I also won't need my Auto Transformer as there won't be any load imbalance as all 120v stuff will run of my existing Multiplus. I think the rotary switches on the panel cost $450 each, plus the breakers, and there are 5 230v slots. Probably new, I'm guessing a panel like this would be around $3k.

I already have all the rotary switches, multimeters etc. I only order the aluminum front panel. My main issue is that my new panels can only be 8” high so with the flange allowance only 6.5” height for breakers and switches.

How does your auto transformer look? Ineed a second one...

[Palarran]

Brand new. Too bad on the panel. I'm not going to throw it away but it would have been un-effin-believable if you could have used it and I could have used your Quattro.

It's also funny to see your design and be thinking about mine. Absolutely no offense meant, be we are working towards two different spectrums. I'm removing nearly everything that isn't absolutely necessary to operate the boat, and your building a complete redundant system to the tee. I'll bet that over the last two years we have pulled out 200 pounds of wiring. Just spare wiring. Crazy crap the PO had done. Add to that the two generators, two extra generator diesel storage tanks, yada yada - thousands of pounds lost.

I'm going to be arriving at Scorpion right after Thanksgiving. We will launch and leave pretty quickly, as in 4 or 5 days.

[jt11791]

Does your 240V 50A shore power not go through an isolation transformer? If not, why not?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by jt11791

Does your 240V 50A shore power not go through an isolation transformer? If not, why not?

If there is any doubt about the electrical installation ashore, I will use the shore power connection with isolation transformer. For our home slip the electrical is top notch and I accept a galvanic isolator as good to go. I’m worried about transients due to lightning strikes though so installed a very good EMS/surge suppressor. This device has a contactor and will only pass shore power when it’s good, plus do surge suppression.

The only reason for the 50A is that we switched to an all electric galley for which the 3.6kW shore power is not enough.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Brand new. Too bad on the panel. I'm not going to throw it away but it would have been un-effin-believable if you could have used it and I could have used your Quattro.

It's also funny to see your design and be thinking about mine. Absolutely no offense meant, be we are working towards two different spectrums. I'm removing nearly everything that isn't absolutely necessary to operate the boat, and your building a complete redundant system to the tee. I'll bet that over the last two years we have pulled out 200 pounds of wiring. Just spare wiring. Crazy crap the PO had done. Add to that the two generators, two extra generator diesel storage tanks, yada yada - thousands of pounds lost.

I'm going to be arriving at Scorpion right after Thanksgiving. We will launch and leave pretty quickly, as in 4 or 5 days.

If you’re still in for the Quattro I have, I’ll take the auto transformer as part payment. I like bartering, what else do you have?

[s/v Jedi]

Still in the fight. Here's the draft for the AC distribution panel with the three groups.

[s/v Jedi]

Final draft... or so I hope. These are both Main and Distribution AC panels. Next is to put them in CAD.

[s/v Jedi]

The forum is doing all kinds of weird stuff with these pictures. Both panels are the same height: 8 inch. The AC Main panel is 15.75 inch wide and the AC Distribution panel is 21.25 inch wide.

[jt11791]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

If there is any doubt about the electrical installation ashore, I will use the shore power connection with isolation transformer. For our home slip the electrical is top notch and I accept a galvanic isolator as good to go. I’m worried about transients due to lightning strikes though so installed a very good EMS/surge suppressor. This device has a contactor and will only pass shore power when it’s good, plus do surge suppression.

The only reason for the 50A is that we switched to an all electric galley for which the 3.6kW shore power is not enough.

I've been on some docks where the AC voltage was low, 100V or so, and I was happy to have an isolation transformer with a voltage boost option. If you are going to have a transformer at all, why not get one where you can use it for all shore connections? Good luck with whatever you build, it looks like it will be well thought out.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by jt11791

I've been on some docks where the AC voltage was low, 100V or so, and I was happy to have an isolation transformer with a voltage boost option. If you are going to have a transformer at all, why not get one where you can use it for all shore connections? Good luck with whatever you build, it looks like it will be well thought out.

The transformer I have is 3.6kW. For a 50A shore power connection you need a 12kW transformer which is too much, too big, too heavy for me

[s/v Jedi]

So, it is finished and the final version is out. This has now been tested for months and it’s working perfectly.

Note that this version has -not- grounded neutral so as to avoid all problems around grounding while creating the safest environment for boat and crew. This does mean that double pole breakers are required for every branch circuit 120V and 240V plus that every outlet must be a grounded outlet.

This system allows parallel operation of the two inverter/chargers for double power, plus it allows split operation where one unit is charging the battery while the other is in invert mode to power the boat. This is for when shore power is incompatible with voltage and/or frequency used aboard.
Also, with a little rewiring the system can be used with two completely independent (different brand/type) of inverter chargers. For this each inverter gets it’s own output bus and each distribution group can select a different bus for balancing the loads.

[Palarran]

Nice. I hope finishing this didn't prevent you from going to the Bahamas though. I finished my system a few months ago and am very happy with it. Went from 100 amps of shore and 20kva to 30 amps of shore and 8kva. Thank you for the info you provided and the pictures, which inspired me to start the system several years ago.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Nice. I hope finishing this didn't prevent you from going to the Bahamas though. I finished my system a few months ago and am very happy with it. Went from 100 amps of shore and 20kva to 30 amps of shore and 8kva. Thank you for the info you provided and the pictures, which inspired me to start the system several years ago.

We’ve been enjoying the Bahamas for a while now; very glad to be here this is where we’re testing the system.

Seems you downsized significantly?

[Palarran]

I hope you'll post some photos of the completed battery bank and components. It's really fantastic workmanship.

I just rightsized after installing 1350 watts of solar. That really made a difference. I like it though and feel we will be able to power up even off small Greek quays with 16 amps. My new A/C's draw a total of 13 amps when running, down 50% from the originals. I'm not sure how the Quattro controls this when you dial in the available shore power and need to figure that out. Does it drop the loads to charge the batteries or regulate the charger? I'll find out soon enough as I hope to leave in 25 days.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I hope you'll post some photos of the completed battery bank and components. It's really fantastic workmanship.

I just rightsized after installing 1350 watts of solar. That really made a difference. I like it though and feel we will be able to power up even off small Greek quays with 16 amps. My new A/C's draw a total of 13 amps when running, down 50% from the originals. I'm not sure how the Quattro controls this when you dial in the available shore power and need to figure that out. Does it drop the loads to charge the batteries or regulate the charger? I'll find out soon enough as I hope to leave in 25 days.

Which A/C did you get? Another project on my list.

The Quattro will first limit battery charging, then it will take power from the batteries to supply needed output power above what it is allowed to take from its input.

I have posted everything on the Jedi Facebook page. Here’s the battery before being lowered inside the keel sump