European Wiring on vessel for US & Caribbean use

[Messing About]

Looking at boat for Sale. Selling broker disclosed this IP370 was originally sold to an owner in the Netherlands so it’s wired for EU. Has been with Texas owner since 2014. Here’s what the broker said about the wiring:

“Please see the wiring diagram provided by the owner below.
She can plug into 50 amp 240 US or 30 amp 110 through two different methods.
The interior plugs are European style but those appliances can be purchased online.
He has a converter to a 110 as well for regular US appliances if needed.
You should be able to plug your honda into the 110 shore power plug.
Also, see adapter on Amazon Link this might work for basic electrical devices.”

Who thinks this is a deal breaker for a perspective US owner?
My electrical knowledge is limited to wiring in breakers, changing outlets, troubleshooting with a multimeter, and installing solar components and 12V accessories , etc.

[PippaB]

Wouldn't even be a question for me, I'd only want to know if the installation and wiring are decently done. But then I've been living on a Euro-built, US-based boat for close to a decade and I feel quite comfortable with electrical work.

[fxykty]

Just remember that the current amps roughly double when you drop from 220V to 110V. So all of the 220V wiring will be undersized, except for any parts that were designed for US voltages. But all the interior outlets and circuits will likely be undersized. That can be a big fire risk.

[Messing About]

Thanks. It sounds like it could be more trouble than it’s worth, unless the boat could be acquired low enough to budget a full change out of the electrical system.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Just remember that the current amps roughly double when you drop from 220V to 110V. So all of the 220V wiring will be undersized, except for any parts that were designed for US voltages. But all the interior outlets and circuits will likely be undersized. That can be a big fire risk.

I addressed this in another thread. In the main European boats will be wired to 2.5mm2 cabling , this is equivalent to about awg 13 of such a thing existed.

This is more then capable of 20-25A at 110 , or 2000W plus, using E-11 ABYC tables

This is far more then more 110 circuits will need

Secondly the 230 vac breakers will be rated for 16A , or less these will protect the cabling at 110

THERE IS NO FIRE RISK

I wish people would learn basic electrics before posting

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Messing About

Thanks. It sounds like it could be more trouble than it’s worth, unless the boat could be acquired low enough to budget a full change out of the electrical system.

Very little needs to be done in reality. Certainly complete requiring us absolutely not necessary

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I addressed this in another thread. In the main European boats will be wired to 2.5mm2 cabling , this is equivalent to about awg 13 of such a thing existed.

This is more then capable of 20-25A at 110 , or 2000W plus, using E-11 ABYC tables

This is far more then more 110 circuits will need

Secondly the 230 vac breakers will be rated for 16A , or less these will protect the cabling at 110

THERE IS NO FIRE RISK

I wish people would learn basic electrics before posting

Thanks for the clarification and I apologise for any mistakes I have made. I based my comments on the wiring that is on our 2003 French-built boat. The AC wiring is sized for either 10A (most circuits) or 16A for the washing machine and around the galley, with circuit breakers to match. We have 32A wiring/breakers for the hob and oven circuits. Sending double the current through any of the circuits would definitely cause problems on our boat.

If our boat is an exception then so be it, my mistake to generalise.

How can you send 20-25A of current if the breaker is rated for 16A? Wouldn’t you at least need to increase the size of the breakers, assuming the wiring is sufficient?

And excess heat at terminals and connections is a common source of electrical fires. Under sizing can be a cause.

[shimari]

We have a euro powered boat in the US. There are very few things today that are not dual frequency (50/60hz) and voltage (120/230-240). For voltage sensitive items, you can get a small table top step down transformer. If the item is frequency sensitive, then you're pretty much out of luck unless you want to run the entire boat from an inverter.

For the things that aren't, e.g. microwaves are usually locked to a specific frequency, you can get a Korean one that runs at 240v/60hz online.

We're actually finding that having 240v is a good thing. We were able to add an induction stovetop, and will be adding the Daewoo mini-washer/dryer that people are raving about.

We also confirmed our circuits are 2.5mm2 so we can convert our sockets to 120 if we ever feel the need.

When I was looking for boats, I initially ignored those that were euro wired. Once I looked into it and thought about it, it's not really a big deal.

[Stewie12]

If all can be cycled at 50/ 60 then you should not have a problem. At the worst maybe the microwave might take a bit longer , but no fire risk.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Thanks for the clarification and I apologise for any mistakes I have made. I based my comments on the wiring that is on our 2003 French-built boat. The AC wiring is sized for either 10A (most circuits) or 16A for the washing machine and around the galley, with circuit breakers to match. We have 32A wiring/breakers for the hob and oven circuits. Sending double the current through any of the circuits would definitely cause problems on our boat.

If our boat is an exception then so be it, my mistake to generalise.

How can you send 20-25A of current if the breaker is rated for 16A? Wouldn’t you at least need to increase the size of the breakers, assuming the wiring is sufficient?

And excess heat at terminals and connections is a common source of electrical fires. Under sizing can be a cause.

You would have to examine the wiring cross sizing directly.

My Bavaria is wired with 2.5mm2 ( they built them proper in 2000-2006) as there are no individual circuit breakers so the whole loom must accept the standard 16A.

If a European boat has say 10 A ac breakers then it’s good for 110 vac at the same current at the very least.

I’m not suggesting changing the circuit breakers. I would only do that once I have verified my cable cross sections.

So there’s no risk of any overheating staying within the original breaker ratings.

[sailcrazy]

We have a 1989 Taswell 43, built in Asia, for Asia......same as EU. We've been in the US/Caribb now for 7 years, without electrical issue. I bought and installed a Victon auto-sensing Isolation Transformer, and we've had no issues since. first off, US elect is 220/240v, which is 4-wire(2 hots, neutral, and grnd). US 110v is 3-wire (1 hot, 1 neutral, and grnd). Your EU boat is 230v 3 wire (hot, neutral, grnd). You can not plug your 3-wire system into a US 220v 4-wire system (without doing some magic!). With our Victron transformer, we plug into a 110 power pole at a marina, The transformer senses the 110v, steps it up to 230v, and it feeds the existing house elect system. That 110v power pole is rated for 30 amps, but when you convert it to 230v, you can only use 16 amps (Power=volts x amps, and the power stays constant). I did buy and install a 1500w (small) transformer, tapped into an existing 230v outlet, and wired in 3 or 4 110v outlets thruout the boat. As has been mentioned, your installed equipment is 50cps, but US power is 60cps. We run our watermaker & our refer system(230v 50cps motors), our m/w, and everything else onboard on both.....so far, after some 7 years, not a problem. The only issue we've had....it's easy to turn on to much stuff and exceed the internal 16 amp load, which equals more than 30 amp at 110v.....and pop the power pole c/b. So you turn off some stuff, reset the c/b, and continue on. It's not that big of a deal....really!

[Messing About]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

We have a 1989 Taswell 43, built in Asia, for Asia......same as EU. We've been in the US/Caribb now for 7 years, without electrical issue. I bought and installed a Victon auto-sensing Isolation Transformer, and we've had no issues since. first off, US elect is 220/240v, which is 4-wire(2 hots, neutral, and grnd). US 110v is 3-wire (1 hot, 1 neutral, and grnd). Your EU boat is 230v 3 wire (hot, neutral, grnd). You can not plug your 3-wire system into a US 220v 4-wire system (without doing some magic!). With our Victron transformer, we plug into a 110 power pole at a marina, The transformer senses the 110v, steps it up to 230v, and it feeds the existing house elect system. That 110v power pole is rated for 30 amps, but when you convert it to 230v, you can only use 16 amps (Power=volts x amps, and the power stays constant). I did buy and install a 1500w (small) transformer, tapped into an existing 230v outlet, and wired in 3 or 4 110v outlets thruout the boat. As has been mentioned, your installed equipment is 50cps, but US power is 60cps. We run our watermaker & our refer system(230v 50cps motors), our m/w, and everything else onboard on both.....so far, after some 7 years, not a problem. The only issue we've had....it's easy to turn on to much stuff and exceed the internal 16 amp load, which equals more than 30 amp at 110v.....and pop the power pole c/b. So you turn off some stuff, reset the c/b, and continue on. It's not that big of a deal....really!

This is a very helpful reply. Thank you so much.

[Dirk01]

Victron auto-sensing Isolation Transformer is the way to go. An isolation transformer has additional advantages. Ask goboatingnow, he's very familiar with it and can explain it better than me. But, and that's an important point, don't connect the boats earth to the shore power earth.

Cheers
Dirk

[donradcliffe]

First, never trust what a broker says.

Second, don't trust Europeans to give you the facts about American electrical codes.

Third, as the boat was built in America, I seriously doubt if Island Packet put in smaller wiring just for one boat.

My guess is that the basic wiring will not be a problem, but suggest you ask IP what they did, or what they would do today for a boat to be used in the EU.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

First, never trust what a broker says.

Second, don't trust Europeans to give you the facts about American electrical codes.

Third, as the boat was built in America, I seriously doubt if Island Packet put in smaller wiring just for one boat.

My guess is that the basic wiring will not be a problem, but suggest you ask IP what they did, or what they would do today for a boat to be used in the EU.

As a European with time spent in the US working under the NEC , your generalisation is nonsense. Not to mention that the NEC has no relevance for boats anyway

What is also obvious is people quoting irrelevant codes have limited fundamental understating of mains electrics.