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Old 09-08-2022, 09:50   #1
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Electrical Gremlin

This is a refinement of an earlier post.

It all started when I removed the stereo. The stereo worked fine, I just wanted to replace it with a Bluetooth enabled radio.

As you likely know stereos required both a switched power and a constant power.

A) in the attached photo is the switched power (instrument switch)
B) in the attached photo is ground
C) is constant power

When I went to reinstall the radio I found that A) switched power, had voltage B) the ground lost grounding when the bilge pump switch was turned on and C) has no voltage whatsoever.

I also just discovered the bilge pump doesn't work. (it worked fine last year) I find it too coincidental that B) negative loses grounding when the bilge pump turns off for this not to be related.

I would desperately appreciate your input.
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Old 09-08-2022, 10:42   #2
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmacmi View Post
...When I went to reinstall the radio I found that A) switched power, had voltage B) the ground lost grounding when the bilge pump switch was turned on and C) has no voltage whatsoever.

I also just discovered the bilge pump doesn't work. (it worked fine last year) I find it too coincidental that B) negative loses grounding when the bilge pump turns off for this not to be related...
It is very hard to follow these statements of yours. The commas, parens, and lack of periods make the sentence confusing. For this reason it is difficult to make suggestions.

However, tracing the wires back to the panels and breakers should allow you to resolve the issue, even without help from us.
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Old 09-08-2022, 11:07   #3
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

Fix the bilge pump first ... it is more important than the stereo. And while fixing that you may uncover your answers.

Your other thread you were asking about the panel ... what did you find when you looked behind the panel?
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Old 09-08-2022, 11:55   #4
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

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Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
It is very hard to follow these statements of yours. The commas, parens, and lack of periods make the sentence confusing. For this reason it is difficult to make suggestions.

However, tracing the wires back to the panels and breakers should allow you to resolve the issue, even without help from us.
Tracing the wires is not the easiest thing to do. It has a fully wrapped wiring harness back to a DIN rail and unfortunately the labels have faded.

Is there another way of breaking down my sentences to make it easier.

Right now I am focused on the bilge pump. Before I cut up the wires to the pump to test connectivity. I'm trying to see if something I changed in the panel is the culprit. Specifically why a ground that is switched by the bilge pump would be used as ground for a stereo...and I'm confident it came from the factory that way.
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Old 09-08-2022, 11:58   #5
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

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Originally Posted by Kelkara View Post
Fix the bilge pump first ... it is more important than the stereo. And while fixing that you may uncover your answers.

Your other thread you were asking about the panel ... what did you find when you looked behind the panel?
The switch fixed itself. It may be on its way out, but it works fine for now.

I am focused on the bilge pump. As I noted in my other follow up post, I'm trying to figure out if something I did in removing the stereo is related to the bilge pump not working. As I described, for some reason the ground used for the stereo is turned off by the bilge pump panel switch.
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Old 09-08-2022, 12:05   #6
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

A complete guess and only based on your initial post.

I thought the stereo ground or - might be swapped with the bilge switch positive which functioned as a path to ground or - but when the bilge switch became active it turned into a positive path.

I couldn't tell if you thought they were related but I assumed they were.
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Old 09-08-2022, 13:05   #7
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

If you really want to focus on the wires in your picture ...

The yellow crimp seems to have a red and black wire crimped on the right side ... is that true, or just black tape? if there really is a black wire it will be so easy for someone to wire it up wrong on the other end.

the yellow wire after it is changed to red appears to be hiding a connector behind more tape ... if so, remove the tape and see what is hiding.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "ground gets turned off" ... But I really think you need to open up the panel and see how the other ends of these wires (and the bilge pump wires) are behaving.
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Old 09-08-2022, 17:14   #8
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

I would start with a schematic of what you want it to do or how it should be and/or work and go from there.

Is the DIN rail stock or something added before you? What mods did you make?

One form of bilge pump wiring:
battery + to bilge fuse in,
fuse out to switch(es) in, <---this has many forms: auto, manual, float, combination...
switches out to bilge +,
bilge - to battery -.

The question is how to handle the radio's dependence on the 'acc on' function of an ignition switch.

Battery+ to main fuse,
Main fuse to main panel,
panel breaker (or fuse + switch) to yellow wire, <--this has to be on to work--<
red wire to 'acc on' from ignition,<--this has to be on to work just like a car--<
black wire to panel ground bus,
ground bus to battery -.

You could also run both the red and yellow to the panel switch/breaker and have the panel be an 'all or nothing' for powering the radio. I do this in my RV, but have a small lighted switch on the 'red' wire that allows me to kill the radio without defeating the clock function. That radio is ran off the house battery only and does not need a key or mess with the ignition switch.

Understand the frustration of mystery wiring. In the RV they had a radio and tape head wired to the same set of speakers...

Personally I would not wire a radio power anything to a pump motor unless it was an emergency.
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Old 10-08-2022, 08:06   #9
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

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Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass View Post
A complete guess and only based on your initial post.

I thought the stereo ground or - might be swapped with the bilge switch positive which functioned as a path to ground or - but when the bilge switch became active it turned into a positive path.

I couldn't tell if you thought they were related but I assumed they were.
That is a path I'm wondering about. I can check that.
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Old 10-08-2022, 08:17   #10
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelkara View Post
If you really want to focus on the wires in your picture ...

The yellow crimp seems to have a red and black wire crimped on the right side ... is that true, or just black tape? if there really is a black wire it will be so easy for someone to wire it up wrong on the other end.

the yellow wire after it is changed to red appears to be hiding a connector behind more tape ... if so, remove the tape and see what is hiding.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "ground gets turned off" ... But I really think you need to open up the panel and see how the other ends of these wires (and the bilge pump wires) are behaving.
Note this is the original Beneteau wiring harness.

The yellow crimp contains the positive from the stereo and the positive from the VHF (which works) that is bound together with the negative from the VHF in their own separate run back to the DIN rack. I assume they go back to the instrument switch since that turns on and off with the switch.

The yellow line is red crimped to a positive line and the negative is red crimped to a negative. Together they are bundled together and have a separate run back to the DIN. The yellow line does not have power.

When I say that the "ground gets turned off" I should say there is no longer ground on that wire when the bilge switch is turned on.
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Old 10-08-2022, 08:22   #11
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
I would start with a schematic of what you want it to do or how it should be and/or work and go from there.

Is the DIN rail stock or something added before you? What mods did you make?

One form of bilge pump wiring:
battery + to bilge fuse in,
fuse out to switch(es) in, <---this has many forms: auto, manual, float, combination...
switches out to bilge +,
bilge - to battery -.

The question is how to handle the radio's dependence on the 'acc on' function of an ignition switch.

Battery+ to main fuse,
Main fuse to main panel,
panel breaker (or fuse + switch) to yellow wire, <--this has to be on to work--<
red wire to 'acc on' from ignition,<--this has to be on to work just like a car--<
black wire to panel ground bus,
ground bus to battery -.

You could also run both the red and yellow to the panel switch/breaker and have the panel be an 'all or nothing' for powering the radio. I do this in my RV, but have a small lighted switch on the 'red' wire that allows me to kill the radio without defeating the clock function. That radio is ran off the house battery only and does not need a key or mess with the ignition switch.

Understand the frustration of mystery wiring. In the RV they had a radio and tape head wired to the same set of speakers...

Personally I would not wire a radio power anything to a pump motor unless it was an emergency.
Its the original Beneteau wiring harness. I know the original owner and I'm quiet confident he didn't change it.

Actually I tried wiring the radio harness yellow and red to the + wire from the panel instrument switch because I don't care about the clock or the pre-sets. I wired the ground to the ground as shown in the photo. It didn't work.
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Old 10-08-2022, 10:38   #12
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmacmi View Post
Its the original Beneteau wiring harness. I know the original owner and I'm quiet confident he didn't change it.

Actually I tried wiring the radio harness yellow and red to the + wire from the panel instrument switch because I don't care about the clock or the pre-sets. I wired the ground to the ground as shown in the photo. It didn't work.
OK, Benneteau...I was confused by your 'bio' that says Spirit 28, those panels seem pretty basic and not DIN railed.

Sorry it still isn't working. At this point I'd try the radio all by itself to a plain 12v battery and make sure you are not dealing with dead-on-arrival electronics instead of a specific wiring gremlin. Beyond that it is sort of a head-scratcher...
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Old 10-08-2022, 12:39   #13
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Re: Electrical Gremlin

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Originally Posted by Spot View Post
OK, Benneteau...I was confused by your 'bio' that says Spirit 28, those panels seem pretty basic and not DIN railed.

Sorry it still isn't working. At this point I'd try the radio all by itself to a plain 12v battery and make sure you are not dealing with dead-on-arrival electronics instead of a specific wiring gremlin. Beyond that it is sort of a head-scratcher...
I don't have a great photo of the new boat to update the photo. I've hooked the radio up to a 12 volt and it works.

Head scratcher indeed.
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