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Old 23-06-2023, 00:50   #31
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Here’s some panels from FrontpanelExpress.

The DC Distribution panel shows the breaker values clearly. 15A is a standard value and supports most AWG14 circuits on boats, while the wire can take 35A without burning so a good safety margin.

The 50A breakers have 6AWG wire and go to small BlueSea fuse blocks with the familiar automotive fuses. These cabins even have a small inverter (this is 24V).

What Breakers are those? I'm having the devils time sourcing the same style in Europe.
Im probably googling the wrong name/manufacturer....
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Old 23-06-2023, 01:07   #32
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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What Breakers are those? I'm having the devils time sourcing the same style in Europe.
Im probably googling the wrong name/manufacturer....
They have worldwide approvals. Manufactured by Carling, often sold by BlueSea Systems.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat...r_Style=Toggle
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Old 23-06-2023, 01:34   #33
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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They have worldwide approvals. Manufactured by Carling, often sold by BlueSea Systems.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat...r_Style=Toggle

Oh, They are Carling breakers! Many thanks, Ive been googling the wrong manufacturers
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Old 26-06-2023, 08:37   #34
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

Size a breaker to protect the branch circuit wire. Pay close attention to voltage drop estimations when calculating wire size which will determine the breaker size. You will likely have multiple loads on each circuit so fuse an individual load if necessary.

It is easy to misunderstand written comments/replies to technical questions and the electrical installation should not be taken lightly. Electrical power is not so complicated but it is detailed so find and use good referrence books/manuals and make a detailed plan before you start.

Nigel Calder's "Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual" is a good one to have on the bookshelf.
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Old 26-06-2023, 08:41   #35
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

Hi Phil. So 25 CBs @$30=$750. This should be a small fraction of the overall value of your CAT. BlueSea gear is well respected. The rating of the panel breaker is determined by the ampacity of the wire, NOT the rating of the load. Sensitive equipment will have an inline fuse at the equipment end. Here an ATC/ATO fuse in an enclosed inline holder works well. These fuses are colour-coded based on amperage and are easy to tell apart (a lot easier than trying to read the amperage off the end-cap of a cylindrical glass fuse ).

Don't forget to consult tables to determine the correct gauge of wire, based on load amperage. There are two conditions that come into play here: (i) The ampacity of the wire, (ii) The voltage drop based on the length of the wire. Standard tables are published for 10% and 3 % voltage drops. Also, all wire should be marine grade tinned fine stranded copper. Also proper marine terminals. Long story short: Don't go cheap !
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Old 26-06-2023, 10:45   #36
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

The circuit breakers are off the shelf magnetic breakers made by Carling Switch and others. They are not marine specific. Their original uses are large computer systems and other industrial/electronic systems.

They are magnetic because thermal breakers are influenced by ambient temperature. In a cold environment therrmal breakers will carry more than rated current. In hot they will trip early.

Shop for them at electronics suppliers and they are far cheaper.
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Old 26-06-2023, 10:47   #37
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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The circuit breakers are off the shelf magnetic breakers made by Carling Switch and others. They are not marine specific. Their original uses are large computer systems and other industrial/electronic systems.

They are magnetic because thermal breakers are influenced by ambient temperature. In a cold environment therrmal breakers will carry more than rated current. In hot they will trip early.

Shop for them at electronics suppliers and they are far cheaper.
Do you have a link for cheap supply?
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Old 26-06-2023, 10:50   #38
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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Do you have a link for cheap supply?
Grainger may not be the cheapest but reasonably cheap. 15A AC/DC rated breakers are $14 which is about half of what a Blue Sea 7208 is at West Marine. I believe these are exactly what Blue Sea Class A breakers are using. Now the prettier style rocker switches are harder to find but pretty sure they are just carling technologies breakers as well with a blue sea sticker so I am sure they are out there somewhere.

https://www.grainger.com/product/CAR...Breaker-10C595
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Old 26-06-2023, 10:55   #39
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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Do you have a link for cheap supply?
Before I made my post I went over to Digikey. They have so many types of circuit breakers that I gave up on my search. I am sure they have them but too much to go through. Also Allied Electronics would be a good source.
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Old 26-06-2023, 10:55   #40
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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Grainger may not be the cheapest but reasonably cheap. 15A AC/DC rated breakers are $14. I believe these are exactly what Blue Sea Class C breakers are using.

https://www.grainger.com/product/CAR...Breaker-10C595
That’s only $1.25 less than Amazon where you get free shipping so pay less in the end. Of course you shouldn’t buy these at the West Marine
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst.../dp/B000J0NLOS
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Old 26-06-2023, 11:05   #41
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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That’s only $1.25 less than Amazon where you get free shipping so pay less in the end. Of course you shouldn’t buy these at the West Marine
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst.../dp/B000J0NLOS
Fair enough Amazon tends to have good prices.

Weirdly enough the cheapest I can find Carling is at this site which I found just by googling the carling model number.
https://www.greatlakesskipper.com/bo...reakers-toggle

If you want the 15A (probably most common boat DC circuit breaker) not much cheaper than Blue Sea on amazon but if someone wanted 5A they are as low as $7. Even 30 is just $11.

https://www.greatlakesskipper.com/ca...343-i-30a-250v

If you are buying one or two Amazon is probably easier with free shipping but if someone was planning a brand new panel might make sense. Which to go back to the OP question at the least the economics side there is no way you are getting the cost of a toggle plus fuseblock plus jumper wire for less than $7 to $11 per circuit.
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Old 26-06-2023, 11:14   #42
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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Fair enough Amazon tends to have good prices.

Weirdly enough the cheapest I can find Carling is at this site which I found just by googling the carling model number.
https://www.greatlakesskipper.com/bo...reakers-toggle

If you want the 15A (probably most common boat DC circuit breaker) not much cheaper than Blue Sea on amazon but if someone wanted 5A they are as low as $7. Even 30 is just $11.

https://www.greatlakesskipper.com/ca...343-i-30a-250v

If you are buying one or two Amazon is probably easier with free shipping but if someone was planning a brand new panel might make sense.
I just built four new panels and ordered breakers from many, many different sellers. I had some 50A double pole for $20 each which was amazing.
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Old 26-06-2023, 11:27   #43
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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I just built four new panels and ordered breakers from many, many different sellers. I had some 50A double pole for $20 each which was amazing.
Curious the 50A breakers to the cabins. Are there subpanels in the cabins?
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Old 26-06-2023, 11:51   #44
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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Originally Posted by GuySailor View Post
Hi Phil. So 25 CBs @$30=$750. This should be a small fraction of the overall value of your CAT. BlueSea gear is well respected. The rating of the panel breaker is determined by the ampacity of the wire, NOT the rating of the load. Sensitive equipment will have an inline fuse at the equipment end. Here an ATC/ATO fuse in an enclosed inline holder works well. These fuses are colour-coded based on amperage and are easy to tell apart (a lot easier than trying to read the amperage off the end-cap of a cylindrical glass fuse ).

Don't forget to consult tables to determine the correct gauge of wire, based on load amperage. There are two conditions that come into play here: (i) The ampacity of the wire, (ii) The voltage drop based on the length of the wire. Standard tables are published for 10% and 3 % voltage drops. Also, all wire should be marine grade tinned fine stranded copper. Also proper marine terminals. Long story short: Don't go cheap !
Add a third condition: bundling of cables reduces ampacity
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Old 26-06-2023, 13:36   #45
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Re: Dumb questions about breakers

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Curious the 50A breakers to the cabins. Are there subpanels in the cabins?
The cabins have a fuseblock like this:
https://www.bluesea.com/products/502..._Bus_and_Cover
and get a 6AWG circuit. This is 24V. The biggest consumers are DC outlets and a small inverter.
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