Distributed Electrical Systems or Standard Panel? Which do you like?

[stormalong]

Similar to other posters. Main panel at Nav station to control all low current circuits. Several high current breakers in engine space for loads like inverter, windlass, batter charger, solar, ham radio, etc.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by walbee

This article on marine digital switching may be of interest.

https://www.seamagazine.com/digital-switching-on-boats/

If you go this route, which has some allure, be very careful about how it is set up. We were sailing in company with a Swisscat 55 that was fully C-Zone wired. At night. Along the Great Barrier Reef. A couple of hundred yards separated us when they went dark. AIS off. Running lights off. No indication at all.

Aboard their boat, instruments gone, GPS out, autopilot (that had been steering) offline. Someone hit the wrong button on the iPad interface and put the boat into "in port" mode.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

If you go this route, which has some allure, be very careful about how it is set up. We were sailing in company with a Swisscat 55 that was fully C-Zone wired. At night. Along the Great Barrier Reef. A couple of hundred yards separated us when they went dark. AIS off. Running lights off. No indication at all.

Aboard their boat, instruments gone, GPS out, autopilot (that had been steering) offline. Someone hit the wrong button on the iPad interface and put the boat into "in port" mode.

K I S S - keep it simple and serviceable.

Besides being more complicated to operate there are too many points of failure in an electronically controlled power distribution system. A bad switch or circuit breaker is easy to diagnose and replace. Plus there is the risk of ending up with an orphaned system. Ten years from now will you be able to get parts or will you have to replace the whole system. What is "cool" today may be a nightmare tomorrow.

The dependence on high tech tethers you to a support network and costs time, money and aggravation. Don't use a computer to turn on a light!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Chotu

No end to topics here. I hope it’s a fun one. This is an interesting issue I’m not yet passionate about, but I’m sure some of you are.

I’m currently (no pun intended) debating between a distributed DC electrical system and a traditional one.

Distributed system : Large wires are run from the battery area to a large load, such as the windlass or electric winch motors. You then tap into this large cable to position small breaker panels where they are needed, supposedly resulting in less weight and shorter, easier wire runs to the end components.

Traditional system: A huge distribution panel is near the batteries and wires are run from all the breakers on the panel to all the individual components one at a time.

Which do you like? Why do you like it?

I’m probably leaning toward distributed.

Mine is distributed.


There is one main panel which handles most of the low amperage loads, but high amperage loads are serviced out of two smaller panels, one forward, one aft. There is also a separate smaller panel for low amperage loads, aft, servicing those loads which are back there.



On a boat with a lot of high amperage loads spread out in different parts of the boat (I have 10hp bow thruster, 4x electric winches, windlass, electric davits, inverter, hydraulic swim platform, etc. etc.) I think it's pretty much the only way to go. YMMV.

[goboatingnow]

Interesting I’m designing a remote electronic fuse system for my boat, the actual fuse can be placed wherever you want , but yet controls are centralised in a pseudo conventional panel, which means you instinctively know where to go to control the breakers , the system also reports back current levels flowing through each “breaker”. It’s uses LIN bus , so just one wire running around

At present it will works up to 35A but 70A is on the cards.

Fuses can be switched off /on and reset from the panel. Each fuse can be individually set steplessly between 1A and 35A

This gives the best of both worlds

[OS2Dude]

A set of large gauge cables (00 - 0000 depending on length and estimated total current draw) as a +/- bus would be VERY expensive and each set of taps (One +, One -) adds to the expense and is a potential point of failure. (Corrosion, nuts coming loose, short circuit, etc.)

As a retrofit to an existing older boat I don't see a benefit that would outweigh the hassle and expense.

[Discovery 15797]

After completely rewiring my boat a few years ago...I'd say distributed systems are the way to go.

Basically one primary DC backbone runs from the batt bank (just under companionway) up to the windlass that is completely independent of the starting battery and ground. It's a closed loop system. Taps off the backbone to smaller panels that are easily accessible throughout the boat. (I use BlueSea fuse blocks, but hope this doesn't digress in to fuse vs cb debate). Each electronic system has it's own protection device (fuse/cb). LED cabin lights, fans, etc. isolated by compartment.

Advantages....
*Ease of troubleshooting!
*Ease of maintenance (if something should ever fail).
*Ease of adding new components into the system.
*Since each device has it's own properly sized protection device there are no inline fuses.
*Shorter wire runs to devices...more efficient and less weight overall.
*BlueSea remote switch instantly kills power from batt bank to entire house (except bilge *pumps and refer) when leaving boat, or in case of elec. fire.
*Don't have to worry about turning on/off multiple breakers, or use breakers as switches.
*Never have to worry about someone inadvertently turning off the wrong circuit breaker.
*Don't have a single massive cb panel with a rats nest of wires behind it.
*Don't have multiple devices connected to a single breaker. (if chart plotter in cockpit trips protection device, the chart plotter at nav station and other electronics, continue to work.)
*Electrical panel is not a focal point inside the cabin. (Balmer SG200 monitors system.)

Downsides...
*Cost (I didn't mind so much because my boat was built in early 80's and had non-tinned copper wire that was pretty badly corroded, wire bundles with wires that went nowhere, and wires runs with multiple butt connectors.)
*Confuses the hell out of people familiar with massive cb panels when they can't find it.
*Can't impress guests with massive panel with cb, meters, etc.
*When light in head won't turn on, I don't have to run back to cb panel to make sure the breaker is on, so have to find other ways to exercise.

[MerMike]

I'm migrating towards distributed. It started with a small aux panel: cabin lights, engine room lights, galley lights and a spare, because the main panel is occasionally a PITA to access, especially in the dark. Now I'm contemplating adding another small panel for nav lights, anchor light, steaming light and spreader lights in the cockpit, because that's where I use them.

It probably won't go farther but you never know with a boat.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by stormalong

K I S S - keep it simple and serviceable.

Besides being more complicated to operate there are too many points of failure in an electronically controlled power distribution system. A bad switch or circuit breaker is easy to diagnose and replace. Plus there is the risk of ending up with an orphaned system. Ten years from now will you be able to get parts or will you have to replace the whole system. What is "cool" today may be a nightmare tomorrow.

The dependence on high tech tethers you to a support network and costs time, money and aggravation. Don't use a computer to turn on a light!

Could not agree more.

I most definitely don’t like electronics on boats. I haven’t even warmed up to AIS yet. Ha ha ha. I’m getting there though. Especially after what happened to Mike and his cat down in the Caribbean the other week. AIS meant he had a fighting chance of relocating the boat.

I have the bare minimum of electronics and most definitely won’t be putting in any toys that rely on apps or computers.

Just plain old switches and fuses/CBs. I like my boat as simple as possible.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by OS2Dude

A set of large gauge cables (00 - 0000 depending on length and estimated total current draw) as a +/- bus would be VERY expensive and each set of taps (One +, One -) adds to the expense and is a potential point of failure. (Corrosion, nuts coming loose, short circuit, etc.)

As a retrofit to an existing older boat I don't see a benefit that would outweigh the hassle and expense.

She’s a brand new boat. So it’s not a rewire. Just some temporary “construction wiring” in there now. The AC system consist of half a dozen extension cords going from the inverter to shop lights and strategically placed spots to plug in power tools for work. Work is every day, full time right now.

DC is a fuse panel out of an RV.

No shore power. Just 1500 watts solar and an inverter.

We have a propane fridge and a chest freezer running aboard right now. Other than all the power tools, that’s it.

This was a temporary setup to get it movable, in the water and whatnot.

The real electrical system is to be done within a couple months.

The 00 cable (or similar) will def be pricey. I plan to have an electric winch, but have a manual windlass. We’ll see how long the manual windlass lasts. I’m getting tired. Ha ha.

[facciatosta]

I am in favor of distributed system. It is more reliable. The more devices and connection points - the more maintenance, failure and troubleshooting points to deal with later.
On my boat there is small original panel for lights, pump and instruments etc. Everything else is wired directly to the battery or daisy chain connected. Only 2 power busses that I have put in reluctantly because did not have any other choice. Inline fuses everywhere.
With all modern devices that have Bluetooth, WiFi and whatever it is possible to get away without distribution panel.

[jmschmidt]

If the system goes down everything on it goes down. Tried and failed in the aviation industry. People died. Multiple redundancy became the fix but its doubtful that the typical boat owner can ford that.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by facciatosta

I am in favor of distributed system. It is more reliable. The more devices and connection points - the more maintenance, failure and troubleshooting points to deal with later.
On my boat there is small original panel for lights, pump and instruments etc. Everything else is wired directly to the battery or daisy chain connected. Only 2 power busses that I have put in reluctantly because did not have any other choice. Inline fuses everywhere.
With all modern devices that have Bluetooth, WiFi and whatever it is possible to get away without distribution panel.

I have to disagree. You are advocating replacing something simple - switches and wire with electronics. Electronics are more susceptible to failure simply because they are more complex.

I read that article too. I disagree with some of their positives. What is simpler to diagnose than a switched circuit - a simple voltmeter is all you need. No network or electronics involved. As for weight savings - nonsense. The extra labor installing and configuring the system and the expense of the control devices far exceeds the cost of simple wiring.

I used to be a high tech guy but even with high tech we were always looking for the simplest solution. In this case electronic control is adding complexity that is not needed.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by stormalong

I have to disagree. You are advocating replacing something simple - switches and wire with electronics. Electronics are more susceptible to failure simply because they are more complex.

I read that article too. I disagree with some of their positives. What is simpler to diagnose than a switched circuit - a simple voltmeter is all you need. No network or electronics involved. As for weight savings - nonsense. The extra labor installing and configuring the system and the expense of the control devices far exceeds the cost of simple wiring.

I used to be a high tech guy but even with high tech we were always looking for the simplest solution. In this case electronic control is adding complexity that is not needed.

I don’t necessarily agree. It all depends where your technical comfort zone is.

Firstly an electronic fuse system/digital switching can both monitor itself and equally debug itself. Ie it can self diagnose

For example. My system tracks current usage in a given circuit breaker branch. It can report out of spec. currents which can indicate poor connections etc

Equally the distributed nature aids reliably as all the wiring making its way to a panel simply to congregate the switches together is actually nuts when you think of it.

Thirdly certainly in my case all I have to do is place a standard automotive fuse into the appropriate circuit breaker module and I bypass all the electronics on the fuse module , I loose functionality but the system can be restored to functionality

An aircraft isn’t a boat. The failure modes are different and have different consequences and equally restoration and bypass solutions can be very different

[Frankly]

I think some are confusing a distributed system (several panels thru out the vessel), and a single high amp bus that is tapped with solid state switch/ over current devices at various loads. Been messing with this stuff for seventy years, can't imagine the mind set that thinks the latter is a good idea. One nearby lightning shot and your fine yacht becomes a row boat.

Had a friend that had a modern NMEA 2000 to the hilt power yacht. Took a direct hit in the Bahamas. They had to remove the propellers and tow it back to the states. Couldn't even start the engines because of all that non functioning electronics.


Frankly