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23-03-2023, 00:51
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Monterey, California
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 775
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Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Our electrical panels that came with out a boat are a little chaotic, and need re-organization. In the process, I also want to make us a custom panel with, perhaps, a diagram of the boat and indicator LEDs for all the lights (see below for an example).
As far as the electronics, I'm good to go. I also know of plenty of services that will take drawing files and either water jet or laser cut sheet materials for you -- so making a panel is straightforward. What I really have no idea how to do is add graphics, nor do I know the right search terms to figure this out. Hoping someone can help here. I assume they are printed in some way usually. Engraving and then painting might be another option. I also have a vinyl cutting machine, but I don't think a vinyl sticker would last very long.
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23-03-2023, 02:08
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Panschwitz, Germany
Boat: Woods Mira 35 Catamaran
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
I'd use a black anodised sheet and then have the CNC guys just mill out a thin layer of the graphics.
Possible you could even have a protective layer on it when doing so.
Then you could just brush some white paint over it and remove the protective layer then.
Alternatively just have them laser the graphics into the anodised sheet.
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23-03-2023, 04:48
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#3
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Between Caribbean and Canada
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 8,492
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
I have a 2006 BlueSeas? stock panel.
On this panel if a breaker failes I have to remove ALL breakers in that row.
If I ever replace this panel it will with one where individual breakers can be replaced. If such a thing exists.
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23-03-2023, 05:09
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Monroe, Ga
Boat: 1987 Sabre 42 C/B
Posts: 381
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/?g...EaAungEALw_wcB
Can custom design with their software and have them produce your product. Not too hard to learn the software and layout a panel. I am in the process of doing this for a new panel in my old boat.
Good luck
Foster
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23-03-2023, 08:06
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Panama
Boat: Norseman 447
Posts: 1,625
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
+1 for FrontPanelExpress. Used them for panels on three different boats with excellent results.
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23-03-2023, 21:33
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#6
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,760
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Check out the panels I made using FrontpanelExpress
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.
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23-03-2023, 23:32
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Monterey, California
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 775
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Those look great!
I've already started playing with their designer and think I'll go this route. It looks like you ended up doing printing versus engraving. What are the pros and cons there?
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24-03-2023, 05:03
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 14,678
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryban
I also want to make us a custom panel with, perhaps, a diagram of the boat and indicator LEDs for all the lights (see below for an example).
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These diagrams do look pretty, but they take up a great deal of what is usually precious panel space. If you have novice crew or crew that don’t read English it can useful to have a visual indication of, for example, exactly what switching on “steaming light” does, but otherwise it is lot of space that could be put to better use.
The space left over by leaving out the diagram will be quickly filled with a multitude of electronic gauges, switches etc that these days are desirable, but give some thought to using the space to expand the number of circuit breakers. Modern boats seem to be gravitating to a very small number of circuit breakers. If one circuit or circuit breaker fails this will often disable multiple systems. For example, on some boats a single failure can disable all the navigation equipment . Also with any new panel consider installing a few spare circuit breakers. A boats electrical needs are constantly expanding.
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24-03-2023, 05:27
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#9
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 14,678
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer
I have a 2006 BlueSeas? stock panel.
On this panel if a breaker failes I have to remove ALL breakers in that row.
If I ever replace this panel it will with one where individual breakers can be replaced. If such a thing exists.
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Breakers do fail in a marine environment reasonably commonly, especially when they are used for switching DC loads.
Easy replacement is nice, but perhaps more important is to make sure replacements are readily available and can still be purchased many years down the track.
For both of the reasons I like the industrial DIN rail circuit breakers. They are very quick to change and identical products are produced by multiple manufacturers in the same size and form factor. They can therefore be used to switch active DC loads without undue concerns about shortening their lifespan.
If you want a functional circuit panel and are not put off by the industrial look, the DIN rail option is worth considering. This is my main panel (there are also a number of sub panels).
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24-03-2023, 05:34
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 847
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer
I have a 2006 BlueSeas? stock panel.
On this panel if a breaker failes I have to remove ALL breakers in that row.
If I ever replace this panel it will with one where individual breakers can be replaced. If such a thing exists.
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Mine is not as bad as yours, but all of the breakers are connected on the back side with a single metal bar, so I have to disconnect all of those connections to that strip to take a single one out.
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24-03-2023, 05:40
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 847
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77
Breakers do fail in a marine environment reasonably commonly, especially when they are used for switching DC loads.
Easy replacement is nice, but perhaps more important is to make sure replacements are readily available and can still be purchased many years down the track.
This is one reason why I like the industrial DIN rail circuit breakers. They are very quick to change and identical products are produced by multiple manufacturers in the same size and form factor. They can therefore be used to switch active DC loads without undue concerns about shortening their lifespan.
If you want a functional circuit panel and are not put off by the industrial look, the DIN rail option is worth considering. This is my main panel (there are also a number of sub panels).
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Interesting idea, I could see that working for a lot of loads that are not switched regularly, like the main circuit for the cabin lights, or an electric head, etc.. For navigation lights I'd have a normal panel in an accessible location.
The problem I'd see is space, on a normal boat there aren't that many great spaces to put panels. For the DIN rails, it could be a little out of the way, but should still be easily switched without having to dig, while the main panel would be in a very accessible location.
BTW what DIN breaker manufacturer do you prefer?
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24-03-2023, 06:25
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#12
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 14,678
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingunity
Interesting idea, I could see that working for a lot of loads that are not switched regularly, like the main circuit for the cabin lights, or an electric head, etc.. For navigation lights I'd have a normal panel in an accessible location.
The problem I'd see is space, on a normal boat there aren't that many great spaces to put panels. For the DIN rails, it could be a little out of the way, but should still be easily switched without having to dig, while the main panel would be in a very accessible location.
BTW what DIN breaker manufacturer do you prefer?
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Yes, I agree the switch panel (or panels, as sometimes multiple panels are more sensible) should be accessible. The DIN rail is just the standard mounting track that all the circuit breakers clip into. It does not take up any space.
There are commercial boxes available for mounting these circuit breakers that are reasonably bulky. These can be useful for a sub panel, as many are water proof or at least water resistant, but they not necessary if you are using these circuit breakers for low voltage DC applications inside the cabin.
The availability of commercial busbars that slot into place on the circuit breaker itself saves a lot of installation room and more importantly reduces the wiring complexity. Overall the installation should not end up bulky. In the cupboard pictured there are 46 circuit breakers (actually only 23 seperate circuits as they are all double pole). The circuit breaker panel is located between the galley and workshop, so is in a very central and accessible location.
There are a multitude of manufacturers producing near identical products. I prefer the well known brand names such as Schneider, ABB, Hager etc.
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24-03-2023, 15:07
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#13
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,760
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryban
Those look great!
I've already started playing with their designer and think I'll go this route. It looks like you ended up doing printing versus engraving. What are the pros and cons there?
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No question, choose printing! There is a steep learning curve to get things perfectly aligned but I ended up using LucidChart for the print as it has accurate 2D CAD-like precision and can export PDF in custom size pages that you can set at the same dimension as the panel.
In the FrontPanel designer, I import it and center it on the panel.
Advantages: you can use any font (I really did not like the engraved fonts), any logo, any artwork, any color. Make sure to select to have it under printed with white ink first.
This is a UV cured ink that is supposed to be very durable. I believe it’s tested on the floor in front of their counter in the shop and the pictures a year later convinced me. You feel the print on too of the panel in substantial thickness. Nothing like the cheap BlueSea panel print which just goes away. Also, I have the 3mm black anodized aluminum, while BlueSea is painted.
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.
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24-03-2023, 15:14
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#14
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,760
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77
Breakers do fail in a marine environment reasonably commonly, especially when they are used for switching DC loads.
Easy replacement is nice, but perhaps more important is to make sure replacements are readily available and can still be purchased many years down the track.
For both of the reasons I like the industrial DIN rail circuit breakers. They are very quick to change and identical products are produced by multiple manufacturers in the same size and form factor. They can therefore be used to switch active DC loads without undue concerns about shortening their lifespan.
If you want a functional circuit panel and are not put off by the industrial look, the DIN rail option is worth considering. This is my main panel (there are also a number of sub panels).
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Well you don’t actually have a frontpanel. DIN rail breakers have a proud part with the lever that is to stick through the front panel.
The difficulty is that you need a back panel for the rail and a front panel perfectly parallel and the correct distance in front of it, while the BlueSea breakers mount to the front panel and are easier to mount horizontally oriented.
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.
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24-03-2023, 15:19
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#15
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,760
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Re: Custom Electrical Panel Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer
I have a 2006 BlueSeas? stock panel.
On this panel if a breaker failes I have to remove ALL breakers in that row.
If I ever replace this panel it will with one where individual breakers can be replaced. If such a thing exists.
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You can simply replace the busbar that is mounted straight to the breakers with wires. You can do four breakers with one AWG 10 feed wire plus some short thinner jumpers to bring it to the other three breakers.
I have an individual wire to feed each breaker so that I can switch from 12V to 24V easily.
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.
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