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Old 01-12-2019, 10:55   #31
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
....
Where is the start battery?

You appear to be running the starter from the house bank. To me this is dangerous on any open water boat. It is also likely to damage the batteries as house banks are not designed for high currents. Maybe this is just left out on the diagram?


With 3 and maybe even 2 batteries in the house bank there are going to be plenty of amps for starting. They draw on each battery isn’t going to be high enough to cause a problem.

They problem is going to be if you have a tendency to let the house bank get too low before trying to start the engine. In that case you need either a separate starting battery or an alternative means of starting.

Alternatives would be a manual spring starter ($1-2k, not very realistic) or a jumper pack from Costco ($60).

For a separate battery alternatives for charging include:
A. ACR
B. Echo charger
C. Separate alternator
D. 10w solar panel and regulator in a window dedicated just to to the starter battery.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:03   #32
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

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No inverter is depicted in the OP circuit diagram, only a DC switch panel. I asked the OP what the specified cumulative load of the DC panel is so as to ascertain the appropriate conductor sizing which in the circuit drawing is depicted as a 2 gauge. The DC panel has an inline fuse depicted, but does not indicate the amperage rating thereof.

The ampacity rating of a 2/0 wire is much less than 300. It would be inappropriate to utilize a fuse that exceeds the conductors or the anticipated load ratings.

Specialized fuses utilized with inverters commonly have a blow rating twice that of the continuous rating so as to accommodate the short period of surge power requirements for appliance start ups.

It would be inappropriate to have a 300 ampere continuous rating fuse in line with a 2000 watt inverter.

Get a Marine chart. 105 degree 2/0 is rated at 325a outside an engine room.

Every inverter manual (victron, magum, xantrax etc). All list a 300a fuse with 2/0 in their install manuals.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:15   #33
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
No inverter is depicted in the OP circuit diagram, only a DC switch panel. I asked the OP what the specified cumulative load of the DC panel is so as to ascertain the appropriate conductor sizing which in the circuit drawing is depicted as a 2 gauge. The DC panel has an inline fuse depicted, but does not indicate the amperage rating thereof.

The ampacity rating of a 2/0 wire is much less than 300. It would be inappropriate to utilize a fuse that exceeds the conductors or the anticipated load ratings.

Specialized fuses utilized with inverters commonly have a blow rating twice that of the continuous rating so as to accommodate the short period of surge power requirements for appliance start ups.

It would be inappropriate to have a 300 ampere continuous rating fuse in line with a 2000 watt inverter.



FWIW, those fuse amperages were an artifact from Maine's original diagram, which featured a much larger bank in addition to an AC charger.


Apologies. I jumped the gun here. I should not have started this thread until the diagram and I were both ready for prime time. It was not, and I was not.


I need to go back to the drawing board for a while.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:04   #34
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

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Originally Posted by Gene Neill View Post
Apologies. I jumped the gun here. I should not have started this thread until the diagram and I were both ready for prime time. It was not, and I was not.

I would have to respectfully disagree with you kind sir! Speaking for myself, I just got a crash course on wiring as well as what to look for, do and not do. So, all I can say is "Thanks" for asking your question as well as everyone else who helped with educating others.
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:21   #35
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

Being an engineer and this is probably just nit picky, I like to see wire gage, type, and number of pairs on a wire (ie 12-2, 12-3). I realize that example may not apply to marine wire since its stranded and coated.
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Old 05-12-2019, 16:39   #36
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

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Originally Posted by franktroy View Post
Being an engineer and this is probably just nit picky, I like to see wire gage, type, and number of pairs on a wire (ie 12-2, 12-3).
I agree. That info will be added soon. For now, I don't know the lengths of the conductors, or even the exact batteries I'll be using.

Anyway, here's the latest incarnation. I added a reserve/starting battery (again, Ah approximate), and an on/off switch for the house bank. There will be a second bilge pump involved, but I think it will be wired from the breaker panel, so either bank can power it.

That's all I can think of right now. I spent the afternoon digging fence post holes, so my thinker isn't working very well right now. I need a shower and a cocktail very badly.



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Old 05-12-2019, 16:54   #37
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

Is that BIG one a 1-2-B switch? If so, what you show would work. If not, and it's just an I/O, it won't work, because whenever you turn it on, the reserve and house bank would be combined, negating the idea of a separate reserve bank.
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Old 05-12-2019, 17:09   #38
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Is that BIG one a 1-2-B switch? If so, what you show would work. If not, and it's just an I/O, it won't work, because whenever you turn it on, the reserve and house bank would be combined, negating the idea of a separate reserve bank.

It's a 1-2-both.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:13   #39
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

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Originally Posted by franktroy View Post
Being an engineer and this is probably just nit picky, I like to see wire gage, type, and number of pairs on a wire (ie 12-2, 12-3). I realize that example may not apply to marine wire since its stranded and coated.

It would apply if you are describing shore power hook ups. I have 4 outlets and a trickle charging system for my main/house batteries. The first picture below is not from my boat, the second picture is. The shore power on my panel is on the left and like most electrical building codes, there should be "no paper in the box".
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:25   #40
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

I can't understand how opening the circuit wiring from the positive side of alternator could burn out diodes in alternator. Can someone provide a link showing how that happens?
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:56   #41
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

I'm not sure if I'd run my alternator to the house bank. I like to keep the engine separate and have the start battery overflow to the house bank through the ACR box. If you are using the Beta's alternator, you don't want to shock it in case the house bank runs low. Once the start battery fills back up, the ACR switch will close and fill the housebank if the solar panels aren't charging. My solar panels are almost always keeping my batteries charged. You are missing the hot wire to the engine solenoid start button on the diagram.
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Old 06-12-2019, 14:39   #42
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

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Originally Posted by EllisElectric View Post
I can't understand how opening the circuit wiring from the positive side of alternator could burn out diodes in alternator. Can someone provide a link showing how that happens?
The short answer is a large voltage spike is induced in the alternator coils and this spike exceeds the voltage rating of the diode pack causing them to fail.

It can only occur if the circuit is opened while significant current is flowing i.e. the alternator is producing a decent output current. It is the collapsing magnetic field of the collapsing current that induces the voltage spike in the alternator coils. If the circuit is opened when the alternator is not rotating (or if the output current is very small), no damage occurs even if the alternator is subsequently run.

Modern alternators use zener diode packs and other measures to safeguard against these induced voltage spikes.
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Old 06-12-2019, 16:59   #43
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

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Originally Posted by RUSTYNAIL View Post
I'm not sure if I'd run my alternator to the house bank. I like to keep the engine separate and have the start battery overflow to the house bank through the ACR box. If you are using the Beta's alternator, you don't want to shock it in case the house bank runs low. Once the start battery fills back up, the ACR switch will close and fill the housebank if the solar panels aren't charging. My solar panels are almost always keeping my batteries charged. You are missing the hot wire to the engine solenoid start button on the diagram.
Thanks Rusty!

Running the alt to the house bank was something Maine recommends. Keeps the alt from blowing diodes if the 1/2/both gets switched through "off" with the engine running. The batteries absorb the spike, which Wotname was just describing. An upgraded alternator is also in the plans.

The hot wire to the solenoid is part of the Beta's factory wiring harness, so it's on a whole 'nuther diagram.
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Old 06-12-2019, 20:38   #44
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTYNAIL View Post
I'm not sure if I'd run my alternator to the house bank. I like to keep the engine separate and have the start battery overflow to the house bank through the ACR box. If you are using the Beta's alternator, you don't want to shock it in case the house bank runs low. Once the start battery fills back up, the ACR switch will close and fill the housebank if the solar panels aren't charging. My solar panels are almost always keeping my batteries charged. You are missing the hot wire to the engine solenoid start button on the diagram.
The alternator should run to the largest battery bank - almost always the house bank as in this case. If the alt is run to the start battery as it comes up to voltage - typically 13 volts - the ACR closes. When this happens the house bank accepts all the current the alt supplies, the voltage drops and the ACR opens. This will happen multiple times if the house bank is discharged very far, is very large in relation to the start battery, or both.

Blue Seas also states the charge should go to the largest bank for the above reason.
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Old 06-12-2019, 23:09   #45
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Re: Critique my wiring diagram?

mitempo. I'd never argue with the Blue Seas team. Keeping the engine, alternator and start battery isolated, is important to me, even if it isn't the ideal way to charge. I have two Blue Seas digital voltmeters with alarms, so I never let my batteries get too low. That may save me from cycling the ACR. I live in the south, and that helps my solar system keep my house batteries topped off. My loyalty is to my start battery.
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