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Old 25-01-2020, 15:36   #1
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cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inverter

HI all,
can I run an induction cooktop with 3400W on Victron 12V/3000W (plan to get) with another 1000W inverter (already on board) connected via power assist. in most cases it will run on 2000W anyhow but for some occassions that 3400W will happen. Or I run the microwaven/oven with max 1300W parallel while cooktop at 2000W which will happen more often, so 3300W in total permanent should work but the startup surge/spike?

Thats the biggest load on board, everything is far under (washing maschine,PCs...) and I don't want to go with the 12V/5000W one if I don't have to (invest/size/wire sizes to the inverter) as this will need a lot changes.

or in this case I would go 24V/5000W, need to upgrade/change alternators/housebank to lithium then anyhow.
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Old 25-01-2020, 23:34   #2
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

You can buy 2 victron inverters and they will run in parallel once programmed.
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Old 26-01-2020, 04:10   #3
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

2 3000W are 4500Euro versus 3200Euro for a 12V or 24V/5000W one...plus the additional space used. No thank you.
And this didn't answer my question. 3000W one plus my existing 1000W one drive a 3400W load plus the start up spike/surge? Its a 2 burner induction cooktop 3400W (2000+1400W burners) so i can start low and then go up so the spike shouldn't be big.
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Old 26-01-2020, 07:40   #4
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

I hope you've done the mathematics on battery size.
A 5 minute boiled egg will discharge a 100 amp hour battery and take 3 days to recharge with a 250W solar. YMMV
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Old 26-01-2020, 09:13   #5
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

@ CaptainRivet

No, you cannot parallel two inverters from different manufacturers, primarily because their waveforms will not be synchronized.

Which model are you considering? Inverter or inverter/charger? I ask because I do not see a 12VDC/5000W/120VAC model on the Victron website.
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Old 26-01-2020, 09:55   #6
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

Quote:
Originally Posted by YANDINA View Post
I hope you've done the mathematics on battery size.
A 5 minute boiled egg will discharge a 100 amp hour battery and take 3 days to recharge with a 250W solar. YMMV

boiling the egg will the take 500W setting on one of the burners for 5min, so this will be 42wh use. And no this won't take 3 days to charge.


Just bought the boat and there is 440W on already but space for another 800-1000W solar which I will order soon. Just looking for the most watts output I can find on the acutal space I have. Superwind win gen is on too.

Plan is also Additionally 2 highoutput alternators on the engine and a shaft alternator too.
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Old 26-01-2020, 10:11   #7
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

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@ CaptainRivet

No, you cannot parallel two inverters from different manufacturers, primarily because their waveforms will not be synchronized.

Which model are you considering? Inverter or inverter/charger? I ask because I do not see a 12VDC/5000W/120VAC model on the Victron website.

Thank you, finally somebody who answered my question. Expected it won't work but wanted to make sure I am right.
Looking for Quattro line, inverter/charger/assist function

there is a 12V/5000W/230V Quattro model on the swiss website.
https://www.swiss-victron.ch/de/quat...0-100-100.html

But with that amount of watts/resulting ampere I will upgrade to 24V/5000W/230V Quattro inverter/charger. So I can keep the existing cables+less loss and for all the 12V gear several step down transformer 24V to 12V.
https://www.swiss-victron.ch/de/vict...0-100-100.html
housebank will be upgraded to lithium anyhow (LTO cells/Tesla battery modul or the Winston cells)....most likely with 24V the 2 Tesla modules (11kwh and yes I reengeniered it with help of a tesla master technician and know how to install&operate them safely).


Have only 120cmx46cmx40cm space in the battery box and 2 AGM 140AH starter/bowtruster/windlass batteries (charged from the engine alternator and 200W of solar, adding a sterling 24V to 12V battery charger too) taking 50cm of the length.
so 70cmx46cmx40cm is left for the house bank.
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Old 26-01-2020, 11:15   #8
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

FWIW I went with a 4000w (Magnum 4024). Logic being:
-added LFP bank that can move energy well
-rated to 4000w with surge capacity a bit higher for 5min to 45-4900 while I don't use >3000w continuous on principle (theoretically keeping the electrical side cooler w/maybe lower fire risk). I do have a diesel genny if needed.

Horses for courses but I wouldn't like to stack inverters. Any arrangement offers its own unique possible failure modes, but I would prefer to have two (or more) independent inverters on different circuits. To that end I do have a cheap Chinese backup 2000w that I've yet to install as a backup, but it won't see primary service.

Otherwise, after going to an all-electric galley I've procured an Origo non-pressurized alcohol stove. Provides a backup cooking source if everything else fails while otherwise being a means to maybe cook if I'm not wanting to burn diesel solely to cook. Another arrow in the quiver that is simplistic and cost-effective.
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Old 26-01-2020, 11:22   #9
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

@CaptainRivet
The Quattro is a good choice. Be mindful of the temperature dependent output de-rating of this device. All inverter/chargers are susceptible to this de-rating. Victron publishes it upfront in their data sheets.
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Old 26-01-2020, 11:23   #10
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
2 3000W are 4500Euro versus 3200Euro for a 12V or 24V/5000W one...plus the additional space used. No thank you.
And this didn't answer my question. 3000W one plus my existing 1000W one drive a 3400W load plus the start up spike/surge? Its a 2 burner induction cooktop 3400W (2000+1400W burners) so i can start low and then go up so the spike shouldn't be big.
I doubt your old and new will sync.. PUFF
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Old 26-01-2020, 11:33   #11
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

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Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
@CaptainRivet
The Quattro is a good choice. Be mindful of the temperature dependent output de-rating of this device. All inverter/chargers are susceptible to this de-rating. Victron publishes it upfront in their data sheets.

thanks for the confirmation about the quattro. It is well known and has a good support too.
the de-rating is the reason I will take the 24V/5000W one, plenty headroom and the 24V keeps current down too.

On a cat with lots space I would take 2x3000W model to just to have more backup but on my 42ft mono space is too limited.
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Old 26-01-2020, 11:37   #12
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

Itíll probably not work but in theory you can take a 1,000W true sine inverter and feed itís output into the input of a Victron 3,000W inverter/charger and draw more than 3,000W from that using the PowerAssist feature. The output of the 1,000W inverter must be clean enough that the Victron can phase lock onto itís waveform.
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Old 26-01-2020, 11:46   #13
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
boiling the egg will the take 500W setting on one of the burners for 5min, so this will be 42wh use. And no this won't take 3 days to charge.


Just bought the boat and there is 440W on already but space for another 800-1000W solar which I will order soon. Just looking for the most watts output I can find on the acutal space I have. Superwind win gen is on too.

Plan is also Additionally 2 highoutput alternators on the engine and a shaft alternator too.
A high output alternator would be about 300A at 28V DC continuous from a modern City bus; that amount of power would more than meet your needs without the complexity of additional alternators.
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Old 26-01-2020, 12:30   #14
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

@olema #13
In theory you are correct. However the following are important considerations:
> The 300A/24V alternator would require about 15hp. A 42í sailboat has an auxiliary engine << 100hp (probably about 60hp) so this alternator would require a significant portion of the available propulsion power.
> Belt load-serpentine belt would be warranted.
> Side load on engine bearings would be probably be > that allowed by engine manufacturer.
> Alternators are very inefficient machines, thermally speaking. That inefficiency manifests itself as heat that has to be managed.
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Old 26-01-2020, 15:23   #15
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Re: cooking top with 3400W: Victron Quattro 12V/3000W with a power assist 1000W inver

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Itíll probably not work but in theory you can take a 1,000W true sine inverter and feed itís output into the input of a Victron 3,000W inverter/charger and draw more than 3,000W from that using the PowerAssist feature. The output of the 1,000W inverter must be clean enough that the Victron can phase lock onto itís waveform.

It seems this is the only proper answer you got. I could be wrong but I believe it should work. I would suggest you limit the AC input to say 800W so that the small inverter doesn't get overloaded, and then power assist on the victron should do the rest. (FWIW I have been using a multi for 3 years and now have 2 multis in parallel, great setup !)
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