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Old 18-12-2019, 05:36   #46
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

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Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Yeah, I wasn't terribly clear on that comment. I was trying to say that AGM are inherently a very high amp power source, and when you talk about a house-bank size battery, the CCA's are in orbit. As I mentioned, the Group 31 Deep Discharge Trojan battery (AGM-31) is a 100Ah battery with 600 CCA. A typical house battery would be, what, 300Ah, or 3 of these? That's 1800 CCA from a battery sold as a deep cycle. They sell "dual purpose" AGM with even more CCA.

The point is that deep cycle AGM, of any size, has far more cranking amps than the boat it is on will need, and "is beyond comment." But here I am commenting... LOL
Ummm...

Lifeline makes a distinction between their deep cycle and starting AGMs. You might have a look, if you haven't already...

-Chris
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Old 18-12-2019, 07:07   #47
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

The Deep Cycling lines can crank as well or better than the Starters especially since the Ah is much greater.

But the Starter batts will not be suited to deep cycling.

Now if you were limited to say 40lbs max, then yes the higher CCA of the Starter makes for better cranking.
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Old 18-12-2019, 12:37   #48
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

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Ummm...

Lifeline makes a distinction between their deep cycle and starting AGMs. You might have a look, if you haven't already...

-Chris
Trojan makes a distinction too. The point is not "is there a small battery capable of starting an engine" but "is a large deep cycle house battery suited for starting an engine." And the numbers show that an FLA house battery is well suited, and an AGM house battery is better suited than almost any purpose built start battery (not because deep cycle is better than start construction, but because deep cycle banks are several times larger than start batteries).


I'll agree, 3 group 31 start batteries in parallel will do a better job of starting a locomotive than 3 deep cycle batteries in parallel. But, 3 group 31 deep cycle batteries in parallel (or 4 Golf Carts in series/parallel) will do a better job of starting a recreational marine diesel than a single group 31 start-rated battery by itself (read the Trojan specs -- 3 Group 31 Deep Cycle AGM give 1800 CCA -- find me any Group 31 from ANY manufacturer that can produce 1800 CCA!).


More importantly, however, is the impact of that conclusion -- and that is that the typical large-ish house battery, at the expense of space for start batteries, is a very acceptable power source for starting our engines.
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Old 18-12-2019, 12:54   #49
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

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Now if you were limited to say 40lbs max, then yes the higher CCA of the Starter makes for better cranking.
if there was ever a great argument for Lfp start battery this is it.
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Old 18-12-2019, 13:08   #50
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

LOL yes if it were a realistic scenario.

Just an extreme example to make this specific point.

https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw....1500.1500.jpg
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Old 18-12-2019, 13:13   #51
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

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LOL yes if it were a realistic scenario.

Just an extreme example to make this specific point.

https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw....1500.1500.jpg
saw that looks good but would ratherthan the kayak version
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New...edirect=mobile
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Old 18-12-2019, 13:40   #52
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

With the greatest of respect for Dyno, I do fine with six deep cycle Interstates for the house, two Interstate starters for the engine and genset, and one small Interstate behind the instrument panel. If you find well-built, right-sized flooded batteries, and then TAKE CARE OF THEM, you really don't need to spend extra money on AGM, Li-ion, and whatever else can cost bundles.
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Old 18-12-2019, 13:51   #53
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

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With the greatest of respect for Dyno, I do fine with six deep cycle Interstates for the house, two Interstate starters for the engine and genset, and one small Interstate behind the instrument panel. If you find well-built, right-sized flooded batteries, and then TAKE CARE OF THEM, you really don't need to spend extra money on AGM, Li-ion, and whatever else can cost bundles.
interstate batteries are real good as well .
The main reason I recommended the op get dyno is that he can just go to the factory and buy them right off their showroom floor . They are made here in Seattle.
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Old 18-12-2019, 14:29   #54
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

JCI (Johnson, meh) makes Interstates' batteries.

All things being equal the Dyno -and all the other makers reco'd above - will last much longer.

The Deka / Duracell GCs are the way to go for best value, true deep cycling for $1 per Ah really can't be beat.

But sure, if you like Interstates keep using them, not saying they're crap, better than a Wallyworld and good enough for most.
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Old 18-12-2019, 14:37   #55
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

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JCI (Johnson, meh) makes Interstates' batteries.

All things being equal the Dyno -and all the other makers reco'd above - will last much longer.

The Deka / Duracell GCs are the way to go for best value, true deep cycling for $1 per Ah really can't be beat.

But sure, if you like Interstates keep using them, not saying they're crap, better than a Wallyworld and good enough for most.
you do know ( at least in my area ) wallyworld sells interstate batteries .
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Old 18-12-2019, 14:40   #56
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

Better than the others then, not a place I'd go for that
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Old 19-12-2019, 05:34   #57
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

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Trojan makes a distinction too. The point is not "is there a small battery capable of starting an engine" but "is a large deep cycle house battery suited for starting an engine." And the numbers show that an FLA house battery is well suited, and an AGM house battery is better suited than almost any purpose built start battery (not because deep cycle is better than start construction, but because deep cycle banks are several times larger than start batteries).

I think my earlier thought was only that your distinction between flooded and AGM was really a distinction between deep cycle and starting, not really much to do with flooded or AGM. And my next point was only that you can get deep cycle and AGM in the same sentence... if you were to want to do that.

FWIW, I start one of our main engines with a bank of deep cycle 6V AGMs.

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Old 19-12-2019, 08:08   #58
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Re: Choosing deep-cycle (house) batteries

No, the two are completely separate distinctions, and that text you quoted from @sailingharry, stated the case perfectly.

The decision to go FLA vs AGM should not be based on anything but your needs & preference wrt deep cycling functionality, as long as Ah capacity is large.

The Starter vs deep cycling **type** and CCA rating vs suitability for cranking, is only relevant when Ah capacity is smaller than a House bank needs to be.
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