Charger/Inverter to Create125/250V Split-Phase

[Coltrek]

I have been digging for some time trying to find a Manufacturer that makes a Charger/Inverter that will take the standard USA shore power of 125/250V AC in, with a 24V DC Battery system, and take the 24V and invert the same 125/250V for the boat. I currently have a 20 yr old Heart/Xantrex that gives me 125V ac, which only powers half the boat. With Lithium it is now possible to run A/C, and/or Induction cooking that requires standard 250V split phase current.



Mastervolt has a 24V - 3000W - 60 Amp (230V) unit, but it produces 240VAC single phase, I believe Euro Style.



Victron has a Unit, MultiPlus-II 2x120V, this unit will give you 240V split phase output at the dock when you are plugged in, but will only invert 120VAC. It seems you have to buy two of these units to get the 125/250VAC split phase, which sounds ridiculous to me.


Why wouldn't one of these companies make a unit that will give you the power you need/want in one simple, elegant package? Does anyone know of such a Unicorn that I just haven't found?

[tanglewood]

You can stack two 120v units. Magnum makes a split phase 4kw unit. Also Schneider/Conext

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Coltrek

I have been digging for some time trying to find a Manufacturer that makes a Charger/Inverter that will take the standard USA shore power of 125/250V AC in, with a 24V DC Battery system, and take the 24V and invert the same 125/250V for the boat. I currently have a 20 yr old Heart/Xantrex that gives me 125V ac, which only powers half the boat. With Lithium it is now possible to run A/C, and/or Induction cooking that requires standard 250V split phase current.

Mastervolt has a 24V - 3000W - 60 Amp (230V) unit, but it produces 240VAC single phase, I believe Euro Style.

Victron has a Unit, MultiPlus-II 2x120V, this unit will give you 240V split phase output at the dock when you are plugged in, but will only invert 120VAC. It seems you have to buy two of these units to get the 125/250VAC split phase, which sounds ridiculous to me.

Why wouldn't one of these companies make a unit that will give you the power you need/want in one simple, elegant package? Does anyone know of such a Unicorn that I just haven't found?

I don’t have a simple diagram for this yet so I am posting the advanced diagram. Just remove any inputs you don’t want as well as one Multiplus and one Auto Transformer and you get close to the setup.

What you do is you eliminate any shore power neutral and grounding issues with an isolation transformer. It’s output is fixed at 240V and for input you either take 120V or 240V and set it’s jumpers accordingly.

You consider the 240V output of the IT as L1 and L2 so you don’t ground anything.

Now you take an EU model Multiplus and reprogram its inverter to 240V 60Hz and you disable its grounding relay. All the L terminals become L1 and the N terminals become L2.

Of course you want 120V as well and this is where the Auto Transformer comes in. It takes L1 and L2 (simply passing them through to output) but it’s center tap becomes the new neutral and carries the current difference between L1 and L2, allowing up to 32A of imbalance.

With a straightforward setup with one AT you ground it’s Neutral output to boat ground (never shore ground).

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

You can stack two 120v units. Magnum makes a split phase 4kw unit. Also Schneider/Conext

The problem with those setups is that you need a perfect balance between L1 and L2 to get rated capacity which is of course impossible.

[Coltrek]

Yeow. That's what I was trying to avoid - all that extra hardware. I would have to bump out a new addition on the boat to put all that extra stuff in. All I am asking for is a Charger/Inverter, pretty much like they already make, but with split phase 240 instead of straight 240. all in the same box. That doesn't seem like it is asking that much, is it? Or is it? Does the splitting the 240 into 'Household" current completely change the game? It just seems crazy to put an extra Charger/Inverter in there when one is all that is needed power-wise and charge-wise.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Coltrek

Yeow. That's what I was trying to avoid - all that extra hardware. I would have to bump out a new addition on the boat to put all that extra stuff in. All I am asking for is a Charger/Inverter, pretty much like they already make, but with split phase 240 instead of straight 240. all in the same box. That doesn't seem like it is asking that much, is it? Or is it? Does the splitting the 240 into 'Household" current completely change the game? It just seems crazy to put an extra Charger/Inverter in there when one is all that is needed power-wise and charge-wise.

Again, the diagram is an advanced setup for high power with multiple units in parallel.

You only need one inverter/charger with one auto transformer.

For shore power there is no way to make 240V out of 120V without an isolation transformer. It is possible to use a galvanic isolator and use a 240V shore power inlet (you only take L1, L2 and Ground, not the neutral).

So minimum setup is a Galvanic isolator, one inverter/charger plus one auto transformer.

[Coltrek]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

You can stack two 120v units. Magnum makes a split phase 4kw unit. Also Schneider/Conext

Wait, holy crap, this might just be that unicorn! Except it doesn't look like they are marine rated -

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/pr...charger-ms-pae
I will dig into this, {Nominal AC output voltage 120/240 VAC split phase (± 5%)} Looks like what I am looking for.

[Coltrek]

So, I found that *nearly the same* Magnum in a Marine Version. But - Only120v out - Snap! Must be something with the neutral, or some bad medicine in mixing shore power neutrals with boat grounds, or something I don't understand.

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/pr...rger-ms-series
I am waiting to talk to one of the techs at Magnum.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Coltrek

So, I found that *nearly the same* Magnum in a Marine Version. But - Only120v out - Snap! Must be something with the neutral, or some bad medicine in mixing shore power neutrals with boat grounds, or something I don't understand.

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/pr...rger-ms-series
I am waiting to talk to one of the techs at Magnum.

Here’s my diagram adapted for your setup. The Magnum has the transformer internally.

https://www.facebook.com/10005594803...ZFejKBRQZpUl/?

[smac999]

You can stack 2 victrons.

If you really need to balance the lines. Rather then just run stuff on each line. Then you buy a 230v inverter and an auto transformer. Then it perfectly balances the output lines

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by smac999

You can stack 2 victrons.

If you really need to balance the lines. Rather then just run stuff on each line. Then you buy a 230v inverter and an auto transformer. Then it perfectly balances the output lines

Just be aware that there are a variety of possible circulating current issues with such a configuration, plus a need for interlocked over current protection to be sure you can’t end up with an open neutral. And the Victron autotransformer is particularly problematic for a few different reasons in such an application.

[Lepke]

I use the Magnum MS-PAE 48v inverter. They make a 24v. It outputs 2-120v lines making 240v if needed. You can stack them up to 16kw.

[El Pinguino]

Not sure if this Sterling unit would do the job for you

https://sterling-power.com/collectio...0a-charger-new


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...f?v=1635423671

[Coltrek]

Originally Posted by Lepke

I use the Magnum MS-PAE 48v inverter. They make a 24v. It outputs 2-120v lines making 240v if needed. You can stack them up to 16kw.

This is the one that currently has my interest - only with 24V Batteries. Interesting to see that you are using one of these PAE series successfully. After seeing they also have a MS series, which is a marine version, which makes me wonder if there is something I am missing. Have you had any problems with this, regarding integration with shore neutrals, grounds, etc? The only problem with the MS marine version, as mentioned, only inverts 120 volts AC. I don't want to add extra transformers, etc, Would like to keep it simple in one compact package.

[Lepke]

I picked the Magnum because the wiring into my system was easy. I have a main panel where all incoming power (Shore power, 2 generators or inverter) comes and is sent to the boat 120/240 panel. I leave the inverter on 24/7. When shore power is connected the inverter senses it and becomes a charger. I haven't had any problems. A marine electrician wired it. I just had a diver check my zincs and everything is as usual.
I like the system because I never lose power when moving from one source to another.