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Old 25-03-2023, 10:33   #1
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Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

Hi ,
I'm about to install a QUICK 1500 W electrical windlass on a 37 ft Jeanneau.
The specs state 150A current draw but advise to install a 100 Amp magnetic jumper.
I have a 330 Ah gel battery park, and need 9,2 metres of cable run from battery switch and battery monitor shunt (one way so 18,4 m total both ways).
The supplier says for that length I will need minimum 50 mm2 cable (1/0 AWG).
Would this be OK for that length? 70mm2/ 2/0 AWG would become very unpractical and expensive.

Thanks for your advice,

Jan
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Old 25-03-2023, 11:08   #2
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

You do not specify 12V or 24V although the dealer recommendation indicates a 12V system.

1500W @ 12V = 125A. 125A for 18.4m (60.4ft) and slightly more than 3% voltage drop requires 4/0 wire. 1/0 will yield a 7% voltage drop. Voltage drop is the enemy of rotating electrical equipment.
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Old 25-03-2023, 12:02   #3
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

Many folks find a way to shorten the distance by moving the batteries forward - 18m is a long distance to carry 125A. Regardless, cabling is a one-time expense. I know heavy cables get expensive really quickly, but you won't have to do it again. Given CharlieJ's numbers, 1/0 doesn't sound like it would be the right choice. BTW note CharlieJ's credentials - you found the right person to chime-in.
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Old 25-03-2023, 17:40   #4
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

I'm not sure how you are going to run your 150a windlass through a 100a breaker...
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Old 25-03-2023, 19:33   #5
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

I have the same winch. The factory goofed and put in a 60A breaker which tripped all the time. I put in the recommended 100A breaker and no problems. It takes quite a long time to trip at 125A, more than a minute and unless you are overloading the winch, I believe it should be drawing a lot less than 100A most of the time.
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Old 25-03-2023, 19:49   #6
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goudurix View Post
Hi ,
I'm about to install a QUICK 1500 W electrical windlass on a 37 ft Jeanneau.
The specs state 150A current draw but advise to install a 100 Amp magnetic jumper.
I have a 330 Ah gel battery park, and need 9,2 metres of cable run from battery switch and battery monitor shunt (one way so 18,4 m total both ways).
The supplier says for that length I will need minimum 50 mm2 cable (1/0 AWG).
Would this be OK for that length? 70mm2/ 2/0 AWG would become very unpractical and expensive.

Thanks for your advice,

Jan
ON3ZTT
SY Goudurix
Run that through the BlueSea wire sizing wizard

Circuit Wizard - Blue Sea Systems

and it will tell you out of range because you need larger than 4/0. So your 1/0 is going to lead to motor burn out and so will 2/0. Even 3/0 is not enough. You could move batteries up closer and then have large cable supplying them. These would need to be large batteries because if they can not supply the power your just going to burn out the motor anyway.

I have a 1500 watt windlass and my battery bank is 10 ft from the bow total wire run is 30 ft. Wizard says 2/0 but I went 3/0. A burned out windlass motor in parts remote is really bad because how you going to get it fixed and how are you going to get 150 ft of 3/8 chain off the bottom and into the locker so you can get the windlass fixed.

Welcome to boat wiring 101. You can spend a lot of money once and do it right, or you can spend a fair bit of money and do it the first time cutting corners. Then you can replace the burned out motors and electronics at great expense once they die due to the undersized wire, and then pay to wire it right the second time.

Unfortunately there is no free lunch here.


Pro tip on the wire.

Yes it is a pain working with 4/0 wire. To make this easier, run the 4/0 within a foot of the motor and then use smaller wire for the last bit. This is accepted practice. Make sure you use proper terminals on all the wires and proper terminal blocks when you down size to get on to the windlass.

Make sure you use a proper blue seas 285 breaker ( or similar) on the positive supply to the windlass and make sure it is turned off when not in use.

You have 3 choices on the wire.

1) You can get untinned wire. I see no problem with it and all of the wire that was on my 25 yr old blue water boat when I got it was untinned and it was not an issue and had no corrosion. What is really important is that it is high strand count so that it can withstand any vibration. You get this from a wire wholesaler if you can because why pay the store markup

2) You can go with tinned wire with all black casing from the same wire wholesaler. Just use colored tape to make sure you can identify them. This is what I did for all new heavy wire.

3) You can get tinned wire from the Chandlery with red and black coloring for 2.5 times the price of option 2.


If option 2 was not available to me I would have no concern about going with option 1. Just make sure these joints are sealed with shrink wrap .
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Old 25-03-2023, 21:05   #7
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

Here is what you do: buy a small AGM battery and install it near the windlass to run it from. Now install a Victron Smart Orion 30A 12V - 12V close to that battery to recharge it and run something like AWG 6 from a breaker or fuse to the input of the Smart Orion.

The savings on wire will easily pay for the Orion and battery.
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Old 26-03-2023, 04:50   #8
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

Hi,

I recommend your own battery bank near the windlans and between the main switch.

The risk is power loss on a long trip and the windlans relays may get stuck (welded) if they don't get enough power.

Charging the battery bank is not a problem with a long cable and it doesn't have to be so thick.

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Old 26-03-2023, 06:30   #9
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Here is what you do: buy a small AGM battery and install it near the windlass to run it from. Now install a Victron Smart Orion 30A 12V - 12V close to that battery to recharge it and run something like AWG 6 from a breaker or fuse to the input of the Smart Orion.

The savings on wire will easily pay for the Orion and battery.
How long is a small AGM going to hold its charge when being pulled down by a 150amp draw. Theoretically 1 hr 20 minutes but we both know that in practice it is not going to.

I would want to test such a system carefully because I still think your going to run in a low voltage situation.

I have a 6kw bow thruster hooked direct to my 1000 ah house batteries and a Victron multi plus as well. If the Victron is in invert mode on stand by and I run that bow thruster for 10 seconds the Victron loses its mind and starts screaming about low voltage.


Of course this also depends a bit on how your using the windlass.

I know a guy who goes to the deck and steps on the switch and drags the boat up to the anchor and then drags the anchor out of the bottom and never takes his foot off the deck switch from the time he starts till the time it is done. He never uses the engine to bring the boat up to the anchor.

This is of course abuse but it is pretty safe to say that he will also be using way more power to do this than someone who is spooling in chain under no tension other than gravity.
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Old 26-03-2023, 06:42   #10
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

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Originally Posted by Sailorman97 View Post
How long is a small AGM going to hold its charge when being pulled down by a 150amp draw. Theoretically 1 hr 20 minutes but we both know that in practice it is not going to.

I would want to test such a system carefully because I still think your going to run in a low voltage situation.

I have a 6kw bow thruster hooked direct to my 1000 ah house batteries and a Victron multi plus as well. If the Victron is in invert mode on stand by and I run that bow thruster for 10 seconds the Victron loses its mind and starts screaming about low voltage.

Of course this also depends a bit on how your using the windlass.

I know a guy who goes to the deck and steps on the switch and drags the boat up to the anchor and then drags the anchor out of the bottom and never takes his foot off the deck switch from the time he starts till the time it is done. He never uses the engine to bring the boat up to the anchor.

This is of course abuse but it is pretty safe to say that he will also be using way more power to do this than someone who is spooling in chain under no tension other than gravity.
You don’t have the battery forward so that is why you experience that trouble. For a high power long cable run you have so much voltage drop that the windlass or thruster needs more current to get the required power, which leads to more voltage drop etc. All that loss is used for heating up the cables and your battery is the loser.

For my proposed setup, you feed 30A from house bank to windlass via the Orion and you add whatever extra is needed from the battery. As others explained, for a windlass the highest load is only for short peaks. Whenever the windlass needs less than 30A (or when finished) the Orion recharges the battery and keeps it in happy float (AGM likes being full and in float) until next use.
You can add a remote on/off switch to the Orion or control it via an app with Bluetooth.
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Old 26-03-2023, 07:28   #11
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
You don’t have the battery forward so that is why you experience that trouble. For a high power long cable run you have so much voltage drop that the windlass or thruster needs more current to get the required power, which leads to more voltage drop etc. All that loss is used for heating up the cables and your battery is the loser.

For my proposed setup, you feed 30A from house bank to windlass via the Orion and you add whatever extra is needed from the battery. As others explained, for a windlass the highest load is only for short peaks. Whenever the windlass needs less than 30A (or when finished) the Orion recharges the battery and keeps it in happy float (AGM likes being full and in float) until next use.
You can add a remote on/off switch to the Orion or control it via an app with Bluetooth.
Batteries are within 6 ft of the bow thruster and connected with 4/0 cable. Plenty close enough for me in fact I would be very hard pressed to get them closer. Batteries at the front of a boat take a pretty big pounding in a major seaway. Everything is a compromise
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Old 26-03-2023, 07:35   #12
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

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Originally Posted by NBs View Post
Hi,

I recommend your own battery bank near the windlans and between the main switch.

The risk is power loss on a long trip and the windlans relays may get stuck (welded) if they don't get enough power.

Charging the battery bank is not a problem with a long cable and it doesn't have to be so thick.

NBs
For this setup I think a lithium battery would be preferred less voltage sag while using
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Old 26-03-2023, 08:24   #13
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

Thanks guys for those interesting insights. I'm starting to get convinced to install a dedicated battery (AGM?) close to the windlass and charge it via eg Victron SmartOrion DC-DC 30. But my current battery/charge system is: Solar - dock charger and Balmar alternator with external smart charger charge the 330 Ah service batteries. A Balmar Echo charger ( some kind of DC-DC charger predecessor?) siphons a max of 30 A to the start battery from the service battery park. So I guess would have to feed the Victron DC-DC 30 charger from the service batteries (with sufficient wire gauge I guess not important to install it close to the dedicated windlass battery?). Maybe substitute the Balmar Echo Charger also by a DC-DC charger? Ideally it would be a DC-DC charger that can charge min. 2 different battery types (start battery = flooded / windlass battery AGM) but does that exist?
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Old 26-03-2023, 08:28   #14
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

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Originally Posted by Sailorman97 View Post
Batteries are within 6 ft of the bow thruster and connected with 4/0 cable. Plenty close enough for me in fact I would be very hard pressed to get them closer. Batteries at the front of a boat take a pretty big pounding in a major seaway. Everything is a compromise
You have your house bank at the bow thruster? Interesting

In that case, either you need bigger cables, have high resistance in crimps/terminals or you batteries are end of life or too small.

I mean something is wrong. You can’t expect to put propulsion on a house battery that also feeds electronics that want a stable power input.
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Old 26-03-2023, 08:33   #15
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Re: Cable size for 1500 W electrical windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goudurix View Post
Thanks guys for those interesting insights. I'm starting to get convinced to install a dedicated battery (AGM?) close to the windlass and charge it via eg Victron SmartOrion DC-DC 30. But my current battery/charge system is: Solar - dock charger and Balmar alternator with external smart charger charge the 330 Ah service batteries. A Balmar Echo charger ( some kind of DC-DC charger predecessor?) siphons a max of 30 A to the start battery from the service battery park. So I guess would have to feed the Victron DC-DC 30 charger from the service batteries (with sufficient wire gauge I guess not important to install it close to the dedicated windlass battery?). Maybe substitute the Balmar Echo Charger also by a DC-DC charger? Ideally it would be a DC-DC charger that can charge min. 2 different battery types (start battery = flooded / windlass battery AGM) but does that exist?


Lots of ways to do it. But before you get totally invested in putting a battery up front with everything that might entail ( mounting off gassing etc) , perhaps you should try it out and see what kind of voltage sag your going to get when you run that windlass direct off the battery. I would think it would be significant but only a test will tell. Now get some high quality long jumper cables and connect the battery together with the house batteries. Run the windlass an check the voltage drop on that set up.
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