Best Marine Soldering Practices

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Rather,it's impossible to know if any crimp is in fact tight unless you cut it open to examine it. The inability to ensure crimps are good is their fundamental flaw and the reason they shouldn't be used.

I have to disagree. Wire gauges are known, lug sizes and dimensions are known, the metallic compositions of a given wire and lug are known. When you take these known things and crimp them in a controlled-cycle tool (the ratchet-y sort of crimper), you know that the connection is very, very likely to be reliable til it's damaged or corrodes away. You know this because someone at the factory has studied the heck out of it already, the lugs were designed for it, and the tool was set up to achieve this.


In the field, when the crimp is made, you can check it with a pull test. If the wire doesn't pull out or move with the application of a specied amount of force, you can assume the crimp has been done correctly. Again - because someone has already determined that a properly-made crimp will survive a pull of X pounds.


You don't have to take my word for it. I don't know of any electrical standards body who doesn't allow crimps for the size of wire and currents we encounter on boats (and in cars, houses, buses, etc). For some, including the ABYC, it's the recommended way.

[hellosailor]

Using solder as the sole means of joining two wires is the very definition of IMPROPER SOLDERING. The first thing any "How To" about soldering will tell you, and what every maker and supplier will tell you, is that you make a mechanical connection, whether that is by twisting wires, or inserting wire pins into a circuit board and bending the ends over, or making a loop in one wire and then looping the other one through it. You always make a mechanical connection, and then use the solder to make the electrical connection over at.

So the ABYC prohibition is nothing to do with soldering, but everything to do with "either solder it correctly or don't use a solder connection".

The only exception I've seen to this, is contrary to what everyone says about solder and high amperage cables. Elevator motors, feed by high power cables, usually have those cables simply soldered into the cups or the terminal lugs. And these may be finger-thick cables, sized to fit the cups and be retained by nothing but solder. You rarely hear about elevators having problems with the power cables coming unglued.

[RaymondR]

The reason that so much electrical equipment has soldered wiring is that it has long been recognized as the most reliable way of joining conductors in order to make a low resistance, reliable connection.

One of the problems I have found with boat wiring is that multi strand conductors tend to wick up moisture and this leads to rapid corrosion. By heat shrink sleaving and hot melt gluing then reheating the join with a heat gun the melted glue is squeezed into the multi strand wire and tends to seal moisture out hence the long lived nature of joins done this way.

Crimp connectors are a shoddy, unreliable way to make electrical connections and the only excuse for using them is they are extremely convenient and fast to make. If you want to make a reliable connection to a screwed lug, twist the conductor around an appropriately sized rod a couple of turns then solder the loop, much more corrosion resistant than a crimped connection and won't fall off a loosened screw and make mischief.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Kuleana.

Originally Posted by SV_Kuleana

Yep. The tutorial is to teach people the "second-best" (field wiring) practice, because the industry standard best practice is: "Don't solder". So, all this banter about the best way to do it wrong is just that. Wrong.

Indeed, sort of ...

[kmacdonald]

Why would anyone even consider solder? Crimped connections are used on ALL new boats, planes, jets, etc. They are reliable, inexpensive, quick, and easy to do. Don't overthink this simple job.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The reason that so much electrical equipment has soldered wiring is that it has long been recognized as the most reliable way of joining conductors in order to make a low resistance, reliable connection.

Equipment has soldered components inside because it's easy, fast (automated, flow soldering or ovens - a whole board is soldered in seconds) and facilitates repair to PC boards. or at least it used to, before surface-mount.


For connections inside equipment that carry significant current, there's often a requirement for mechanical connection before soldering, or a specification that a solder-only connection must occur over a multiple of the wire's cross-section.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Equipment has soldered components inside because it's easy, fast (automated, flow soldering or ovens - a whole board is soldered in seconds) and facilitates repair to PC boards. or at least it used to, before surface-mount.


For connections inside equipment that carry significant current, there's often a requirement for mechanical connection before soldering, or a specification that a solder-only connection must occur over a multiple of the wire's cross-section.

Soldering takes up much less space that mechanical connections and can be highly automated. This thread has nothing to do with PCB fabrication which has it's own and different set of variables.
Maybe we should discuss ring vs fork connectors? They used fork connectors on my Bristol and also wire nuts to connect reading lamps to the wire runs.

[kmacdonald]

A while back the electric meter box on my house started to pull free from the house due to settling of the underground feed line from the transformer. I called the power company to come disconnect the feed line at the transformer so I could fix the issue. The transformer feeds six homes on my street. Supply to it is 6000 volts that is reduced to 120 for distribution to the houses. All connectors were heavy duty aluminum bolt crimped connectors. No solder, just mechanical connections. They said they quit using copper due to the higher price and the transformers were getting stolen for scrap copper.

[Scott Berg]

Originally Posted by Outlaw7

I have seen many a battery connection where they were soldered and not crimped. With that being said I have seen a few puddles of solder on top of batteries where a short or high current draw caused the connection to heat up and melt the solder. This is the reason why ABYC and the USCG and other inspection bureaus require a mechanical connection as well.

Slight correction: Battery Cables MAY use solder as their only connection IF more than 1.5x the wire diameter is in the terminal.

E-9.17.12.8 Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor. EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.

[MCilenti]

Ahoy Team,


Working on replacing my VHF, coax, and antenna...which means soldering the PL-259 connectors.


So, step one is buying a soldering iron. I appreciate the great list of wired soldering stations. However, I'm intrigued by the butane soldering irons specifically given the ability to use this while cruising without worrying about electrical power.


Anyone have any experience with butane soldering irons compared to electric? I've seen good reviews for this one:
https://www.amazon.com/PPSK-Automoti...t_sims?ie=UTF8


But given my limited soldering experience, I wanted to be sure this was going to be a good tool.


Any thoughts would be very appreciated!
Cheers,
Mike

[mabowers]

It should work, I've used the Weller model for years in my work & currently have a Bernzomatic version on board.

ST500T Auto Ignite Butane Torch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V62QYSS..._PJJLDbKSXG6WK

Practice soldering, keep the work clean, and use flux (rosin type).

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by MCilenti

Working on replacing my VHF, coax, and antenna...which means soldering the PL-259 connectors.

So, step one is buying a soldering iron. I appreciate the great list of wired soldering stations. However, I'm intrigued by the butane soldering irons specifically given the ability to use this while cruising without worrying about electrical power.

Anyone have any experience with butane soldering irons compared to electric? I've seen good reviews for this one:
https://www.amazon.com/PPSK-Automoti...t_sims?ie=UTF8

But given my limited soldering experience, I wanted to be sure this was going to be a good tool.

Any thoughts would be very appreciated!

Hi Mike,

PL-259 soldering can be tricky, if you're a soldering novice. Soldering the connector tip is not too hard, but heating the barrel enough to solder to the braid BUT not melting everything else can take some practice, and requires a higher-power iron (or small torch) to quickly heat the soldering spot before the rest of the connector gets melty.

For me, a soldering gun (100/140W) works best for soldering PL-259 connectors.

The butane iron you linked to should work for the tip, but as an iron it might be insufficient for the barrel+shield soldering. It might work in "torch" mode but that would require a deft touch...

Do you have a count of how many connectors you have to solder? I'm guessing 4. It's a good skill to have, if you can afford an extra connector or two to practice with. On the other hand, you could ask a friend with soldering experience and tools to do them for the price of a few beers....

Last thought - there are some PL-259 connectors that are solderless or just require minimal tip soldering. You could look for some of those.

[noelex 77]

I have one. I hate using it, but I am spoilt by using good quality soldering gear for most projects.

A small inverter is all that is needed to drive even a large soldering iron. As most boats already have one of these, the only real advantage of a butane soldering iron is up at the top of the mast where feeding an extension cable would be difficult (but still not impossible).

There are also 12v soldering irons available, but these have similar drawbacks.

[Nicholson58]

All solders are eutectics.

I use only pre-tinned marine wire. This makes solder easy.

I use only products noted as Silver Solder. Also, only solid core.

I use only low corrosive flux for silver solder.

I use separate heat shrink and 3M 5200 to insulate the joint.

Normally there will be a tinned crimp connector without insulation. Coat the wire end with flux. Crimp then solder. Coat the joint with 3M. Slide the heat shrink over the joint. Hit it with an electric heat gun. These don’t fail.

Many failures due to bad joints have led me to this procedure. I do crimp without solder only as a hurried stop-gap.

[senormechanico]

Lake said it exactly right. You need to hit it hot and fast.
A butane soldering iron is very unlikely to generate enough heat to do a dependable job on a PL259 fitting. Circuit boards and things like that, no problem.