Battery Monitor Comparison - Victron BMV712 vs Balmar SG200

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Regardless.... what I really want to know is if the Balmar works as advertised? Has it developed into a functional, reliable tool? Or is a Victron a better instrument, and I’m stuck having to test and computate to determine my batteries SOH?

Based on my experience with the Balmar gauge, the answer is NO. Its SOH calculation does not work, or at the very least is unreliable. To me those two are the same thing. I went on a Victron gauge with full understanding of its inherent limitations.

Roughly every 6 months I do a full discharge and recharge to recalculate my battery capacity. Just part of the cost of doing things the right way and getting good information from my instruments.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by BillKny

Based on my experience with the Balmar gauge, the answer is NO. Its SOH calculation does not work, or at the very least is unreliable. To me those two are the same thing. I went on a Victron gauge with full understanding of its inherent limitations.

Roughly every 6 months I do a full discharge and recharge to recalculate my battery capacity. Just part of the cost of doing things the right way and getting good information from my instruments.

So far it would appear that you are a test group of 1. Well, at least on this thread. But I appreciate you sharing your experience. This thread has been up for, what - two days and nobody is stepping up and saying... I have one and it works great!

Sounds like a great product. But I research obsessively before buying most things and I just can’t get a good current read on the Balmar.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

So far it would appear that you are a test group of 1. Well, at least on this thread. But I appreciate you sharing your experience. This thread has been up for, what - two days and nobody is stepping up and saying... I have one and it works great!

Sounds like a great product. But I research obsessively before buying most things and I just can’t get a good current read on the Balmar.

If you want more than one sample then read the large thread on the sg200 here
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...or-209056.html
It is clear if you read through the thread that the device displays unreliable data and even those that now like it seem to have some magic intuition to decide when the readings are useful and when they need to be ignored.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sounds like a great product. But I research obsessively before buying most things and I just can’t get a good current read on the Balmar.

So, please, tell us you actually HAVE read that looong thread that's been recommended to you more than once. Please...

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

So, please, tell us you actually HAVE read that looong thread that's been recommended to you more than once. Please...

Yes Stu - If you’ll read (re-read?) my response to you, you’ll note that I stated I have read that and other threads. I had actually read that specific thread (again) this past weekend before this current thread was started by someone else. I initially posted my brief comment merely in an attempt to bump the current thread and see if there would be other useful responses. I didn’t ask any specific question, but obviously my desire for more user experiences was not clear to you. I clarified what I was looking for in my response to you - and BillKny politely reiterated his experience. The only one on this thread to do so.

Again - I HAVE read that LONG thread. More than once! However, please note that it was started in 2018! That’s a decade in the technology world. While there are some current posts... I was not completely satisfied that I’d heard from enough current responses of users of the Balmar monitors. Meaning threads less than 6 - 8 months old. If you go back even that far in the other thread, you’ll note discussion on firmware updates and other desired/potential changes. Has any of this worked? Is anybody happy with the Balmar? Are they NOW working as designed?

My probable mistake was I should have started a new thread directed at and specifically requesting UP TO DATE information from users of the Balmar SG200.

I hope it wasn’t a long ride for you on that high horse you came riding in on. I appreciate your desire to help - but your initial and second responses to me were quite condescending. Regardless - I’ve got a tough skin and acknowledge my initial attempt to bump the thread was not specific enough. Given a face to face environment, I’d offer to buy you a beer and query you thoughts. Cheers.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by Paul L

If you want more than one sample then read the large thread on the sg200 here
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...or-209056.html
It is clear if you read through the thread that the device displays unreliable data and even those that now like it seem to have some magic intuition to decide when the readings are useful and when they need to be ignored.

Thanks Paul. As I noted previously, I have read that thread. Several times. Lots of good info... but it is old. The majority of the thread (roughly 50 of 55 pages on my computer) are prior to last summers firmware updates. I am concerned about all the issues related. That is why in my clarification I Italicized “Current”. As I noted in my last response, I should have just started a new thread and been more specific on what I was looking for.

Thanks again

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Thanks Paul. As I noted previously, I have read that thread. Several times. Lots of good info... but it is old. The majority of the thread (roughly 50 of 55 pages on my computer) are prior to last summers firmware updates. I am concerned about all the issues related. That is why in my clarification I Italicized “Current”. As I noted in my last response, I should have just started a new thread and been more specific on what I was looking for.

Thanks again

FWIW, I'm in the same boat as Phyrcooler and the OP; having to decide between Victron and Balmar monitors and wishing to know how they compare with their current software revisions (pun not intended).

Reading about software driven products from 2 or 3 years ago has only limited merit.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Thanks Paul. As I noted previously, I have read that thread. Several times. Lots of good info... but it is old. The majority of the thread (roughly 50 of 55 pages on my computer) are prior to last summers firmware updates. I am concerned about all the issues related. That is why in my clarification I Italicized “Current”. As I noted in my last response, I should have just started a new thread and been more specific on what I was looking for.

Thanks again

Yes, it is a long thread, yet the same issues continue over the years. Look at post #814 from Feb 2021
It again shows that the SOH displayed by the unit is unreliable, pretty much to the point of being unuseable.

[smac999]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

I was hoping this thread would generate a bit more feedback. Adding a quality battery monitoring gauge is one of my next projects. The Victron has a solid reputation, but I’m very interested in the SOH reading that the Balmar reportedly can give. Otherwise you’re just guessing at what your 100% really means. Is my 4 year old 100a battery capable of 90 amps... or 70? There’s no set answer because every battery’s SOH is dependent on how it’s been used and maintained during those 4 years.

You don’t need to guess. You need to do a c20 test. Google it.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by smac999

You don’t need to guess. You need to do a c20 test. Google it.

Familiar with the C20 test. Interested in the Balmar so that one doesn’t have to spend the day doing a C20 test. Was trying to ascertain if the Balmar SOH reading lives up to the hype. (That was clarified in the remaining thread). Here - I’ll copy a pertinent section that you must have missed.

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Regardless.... what I really want to know is if the Balmar works as advertised? Has it developed into a functional, reliable tool? Or is a Victron a better instrument, and I’m stuck having to test and computate to determine my batteries SOH?

Thank you though

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Again - I HAVE read that LONG thread. More than once! However, please note that it was started in 2018! >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




My probable mistake was I should have started a new thread directed at and specifically requesting UP TO DATE information from users of the Balmar SG200.

I hope it wasn’t a long ride for you on that high horse you came riding in on. I appreciate your desire to help - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

OK, I'll ask the horse to stop so I can get off.


Glad to know you did, and thanks for clarifying.


Actually, getting back up on horse, the most appropriate ways I have seen on ANY internet forum to get interest rekindled in what you consider an old subject, is to either add another post to that topic asking for an update, or to start a new one but include a link to the old one so contributors don't have to retype their responses. That's why you kept getting links back to it.


And before you tell me about horses, again, I have been contributing to boating forums for a long time, help manage one, and have written extensively and independently about many boating subjects. I ain't no Maine Sail, but I do try to help.



That's how I would approach it.


Good luck.

[sailinglegend]

We need to keep this thread active in the hope that Balmar's product manager witzgall will post with some updates.

6 months ago he said they had identified some common installation faults that were causing problems. Some of these came from their own badly written Rev A and Rev B manuals where they showed a diagram with the common neutral between the service and the starter battery not going through the shunt. That meant when the alternator was charging the service battery that did not show on the Ah count. In a personal email to witzgall he didn't understand what I was talking about!!!!!

The original Smartgauge from Merlin that Balmar also sold worked because it was impossible to install it incorrectly. As soon as you add a shunt and try to count Ah to get the State of Health reading then any loads or charging sources not going through the shunt will make the SoH meaningless. If they also use the Ah count to try and make the State of Charge more accurate then that will be meaningless too.

Merlin were criticized for not including a shunt with their original Smartgauge because they knew it would cause the problems that the SG-200 is now having.

Add to this MaineSail - who tested the SG-200 and gave it a good review - has said that over 90% of Battery Monitors are incorrectly installed and incorrectly programmed, so the SG-200 is never going to work properly for a large % of users.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

We need to keep this thread active in the hope that Balmar's product manager witzgall will post with some updates.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Have you considered keeping the original thread active?


You know, the one where witzgall actually appeared?

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Have you considered keeping the original thread active?

You know, the one where witzgall actually appeared?

Have done that now......

[lateral]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

So far it would appear that you are a test group of 1. Well, at least on this thread. But I appreciate you sharing your experience. This thread has been up for, what - two days and nobody is stepping up and saying... I have one and it works great!

Sounds like a great product. But I research obsessively before buying most things and I just can’t get a good current read on the Balmar.

Exactly the same result as Bill. SOH 100% all the time. 5yro batteries.
When first installed was 89%. With update fw it jumped to 100% and stayed there ever since.
SOC is inaccurate above 60%.
It was more accurate also with original firmware.
IMO, the incorrect wiring diagram in first manual is some what irrelevant.
Zero effect on battery in question.