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Old 01-07-2020, 12:26   #1
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Batteries without a battery box?

Hi,


I'm replacing my FLA batteries and the new ones arrived today. They are bigger than I expected so I can't fit them both in the standard Beneteau battery box. I can't easily get a battery box to fit them and I'm getting some local advice that I don't need a battery box at all. What do you all think of installing FLA batteries without a battery box?
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Aedan
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:42   #2
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

If they're FLA, they absolutely must be in a box to contain any leakage, etc.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:56   #3
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

FLA, needs containment.
You donít want it to somehow leak on your fiberglass, Id also think that would be frowned upon by a survey or insurance
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Old 01-07-2020, 13:23   #4
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernMac View Post
FLA, needs containment.
You don’t want it to somehow leak on your fiberglass, Id also think that would be frowned upon by a survey or insurance
An alternative I have seen to prevent FLA batteries from spilling acid is a gimbaled mount that keeps the batteries level with gravity when the vessel rolls. There's no compensation for pitching with such an arrangement. It's an elaborate solution, and imperfect, judging by the acid damage I saw outside the batteries. Otherwise, FLA batteries need acid containment, and it's a good reason to use something else (gell cells, sealed AGM or Lithium batteries).

AGM batteries can vent and leak small amounts of fluid with severe overcharging: but only once. Then they're ruined. I've read accounts of Firefly batteries leaking, but I'm lead to believe they solved that problem.
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Old 01-07-2020, 13:26   #5
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

All batteries need to be secured.
The only instance I have seen in 20 years of FLA needing to be in a box was once, when the batteries froze because the owner was an absolute fool.
I have and will always have FLA not in boxes, but then I am fastidious about my maintenance.
If you can easily put them in a box and feel you may not keep up with maintenance ( bad idea) then perhaps a box is a good idea.
This response is for the OP, not interested in arguing or dealing with trolls.
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Old 01-07-2020, 13:36   #6
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

A box is required to contain electrolyte spillage in Europe by ISO 10133 DC Systems and In the USA by ABYC E-10. The batteries must be secured to limit movement to <1” in USA and <10 mm in Europe.

As always, IYB (It’s Your Boat!)
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Old 01-07-2020, 13:39   #7
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

1 of my 44 month FLA started to leak, so .........................
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Old 01-07-2020, 14:28   #8
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AedanC View Post
>>>>>>>>
in the standard Beneteau battery box. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Would that be the ones right in front of the engine? With its resultant HEAT?


Quote:
I can't easily get...

Suggest you work harder and smarter.


Quote:
and I'm getting some local advice that I don't need a battery box at all...

You might want to consider avoiding these fools in the future.
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Old 01-07-2020, 14:29   #9
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Would that be the ones right in front of the engine? With its resultant HEAT?





Suggest you work harder and smarter.





You might want to consider avoiding these fools in the future.
In a sail boat I donít think that would be a huge factor
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Old 01-07-2020, 14:40   #10
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

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Would that be the ones right in front of the engine? With its resultant HEAT? .

No, not hear the engine.
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Old 01-07-2020, 14:56   #11
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

Iím not sure that leakage is such an issue. If the batteries are on a sound base and held by decent clamps that prevent damage to the battery cases, the boat will pretty much have to roll over or at the very least be knocked flat to spill acid. Yes itís possible and you need to evaluate your sailing environment and the chances of that happening.

I would be more concerned about gassing under charge because even a slight amount of vented gas could have corrosive effects on the surrounding areas. A box contains the gas.

I have my batteries in boxes with secured lids. This is a requirement in terms of CAT 1 (NZ requirement for offshore):

20.04 All batteries must be installed securely in adequate battery boxes. The bottom of the box must be above the level of the cabin sole. Battery boxes must be acid proof unless all the batteries are fully sealed units.

The location of the boxes is not enforced - my boxes are at a level where the tops of the boxes are above the cabin sole. The requirement seems to be so that it would be noticed if the batteries were to be submerged in sea water. My CAT1 inspector has not been able to provide an alternate rationale. In my case, seawater also has to be above the cabin sole for the water to enter the boxes and this appears to satisfy the rule.
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Old 01-07-2020, 14:57   #12
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

I’m one that says AGM’s don’t need to be in a box, however they must be secured, anything having that much mass needs securing.
AGM’s are not hazardous shipping, because they can’t leak, non spillable.
My new bank of AGM L16’s are not going to be in a box, but Wet cell batteries should be in a box.

You could even make the argument that many boxes won’t meet the ventilation requirement of some batteries, my new ones apparently require 1” all around for air circulation.

But batteries that can leak need to be in boxes.

Read the section about construction.
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Old 01-07-2020, 15:50   #13
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
A box is required to contain electrolyte spillage in Europe by ISO 10133 DC Systems and In the USA by ABYC E-10. The batteries must be secured to limit movement to <1” in USA and <10 mm in Europe.

As always, IYB (It’s Your Boat!)
Secured: absolutely! Otherwise, the battery can become a loose cannon. If it will hurt hitting me on the head, it needs to be secured - is my basic rule. I can imagine a loose battery doing all sorts of damage in a knock-down. And everything needs to be secure even when the mast is pointed straight down (that includes encapsulated ballast and bilge covers).

People who think: "the cables will retain the battery" make me cringe!

So far as standards (ISO, ABYC) are concerned, those standards lag so far behind technologies that they may as well only apply to square-riggers. I had a surveyor ask why my well-secured lithium batteries weren't in boxes. I told him I left the boxes back in the 20th century.
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Old 01-07-2020, 16:05   #14
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CassidyNZ View Post
Iím not sure that leakage is such an issue. If the batteries are on a sound base and held by decent clamps that prevent damage to the battery cases, the boat will pretty much have to roll over or at the very least be knocked flat to spill acid. Yes itís possible and you need to evaluate your sailing environment and the chances of that happening.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I read a lot, and a lot of boating forums.


I have seen altogether too many photos of bulged battery cases to believe "...the boat will pretty much have to roll over or at the very least be knocked flat to spill acid..."
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Old 01-07-2020, 16:54   #15
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Re: Batteries without a battery box?

Geico required a picture of my batteries secured in boxes before giving me insurance.
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