Balmar MC614 temp sensor

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by gauvins

My question is - how to test this contraption for accuracy?

You don't need to be too concerned about accuracy, just verify that the temperature readings seem plausible. If you are just too curious then use a thermocouple with a dedicated meter on the same stud and compare the temperature it reports vs what the new Balmar replacement/substitute unit reports.
Do not use a cheap IR 'gun' because it is not accurate enough.



Something to ponder ... on a genuine Balmar 200A alternator, there is a HUGE disconnect between what the temperature is on the temperature probe stud and the diode pack.

How do I know that you ask? I have three (actually 4 but the forth is for a second regulator in case it is needed) temperature probes on the one alternator - one reports temperature to the regulator, one reports stud temperature to a temperature logger and a third one reports diode pack temperature to a data logger. It is a VERY enlightening experience !
As a result of that information, I can tell you without hesitation that you do not want to push the default temperature for alternator output cutback! I think it's right around 100C and I say it again, do not adjust it higher to squeeze some more juice out of the alternator!
I have forced alternator cooling in my setup and I throttled my output back enough so that if the forced cooling fails the alternator will not exceed maximum operating temperature. If everything works as it is supposed to, my alternator runs at about 75C.


One other tidbit of information - the more you push the alternator, the higher the discrepancy in temperature between the diode pack and the temperature measured at the stud.
To give an example: Let's take my 200A alternator. Let's assume I do not throttle it back with the belt manager feature. The thermal time constant on the temperature stud is several minutes slower than the diode pack temperature. If you assume that the temperature sensor will protect your alternator and you happen to have a Lithium battery system, you will be pushing the diode pack well past their maximum temperature before the alternator is throttled back by the regulator.
I do not think this is an issue with Lead Acid batteries but I have not tested that theory.
This btw is why I said that a minor discrepancy between temperature probe output and actual temperature is not that critical.


I would not use aluminum foil in your assembly - you have direct contact between copper and aluminum and I would not trust this to work for any length of time. Even minor amounts of corrosion can become a significant barrier to heat conduction. I would suggest to use normal epoxy or, if you are anal about things, use an epoxy formulated specifically for high heat conductivity!

[gauvins]

Thanks for your insight.

Took the plunge and ordered 3 sensors. Will eventually update.

[Mike Two Moons]

GAUVINS - just wondering if you had any success fabricating and installing the temperature sensors?


I have recently installed a Balmar 612 regulator - replacing a failed Ample Power unit. I tried using the battery temp sensor from Ample with the Balmar, but repeatedly got high temperature warnings and the regulator would turn the Alt Field off. So I am without any senor at the moment and looking for a replacement.


Can anyone advise - are temp sensors regulator specific? (one size doesn't fit all). Might there be a signal from the Ample sensor which does not meet the Balmar regulator specs - hence my high temp readings when I know for sure the batteries where cool?

[Jd1]

There are many many different ways of sensing temperatures and you can't just flip one for another !

[gauvins]

Originally Posted by Mike Two Moons

GAUVINS - just wondering if you had any success fabricating and installing the temperature sensors?

Sorry to report that I didn't have the time to try. It is also becoming less likely as we might very well decommission our house bank alternators, after spending a whole summer at anchor powered by solar panels only.

[Thomasx]

Originally Posted by Jd1

Just to close this thread out, the sensor is an LM235H

Hi

I see this thread is a bit old, but nevertheless - Thanks for this info Jd1!

I assume they use the same sensor for the battery sensor as well?
And that the pricing difference is just due to the difference in cable length, as the battery sensor has quite a bit longer cable, I noticed.

The sensor is zener type temp sensor and the third leg that Balmar doesn't use is for calibration adjustment, for those who want to use that.

So I'll be getting myself a couple of these sensors, looks like I'll get them at about "half price", around $5 each. Cables I've got plenty. So that'll save me some money for other stuff instead

[duncan_ellison]

Mine are similarly in the making as we speak. Sensors cost me $1 ea. and all the other parts I have in stock as someone who works on electronics all the time.

Thanks for the tip, JD1 - I'll report back how it turned out.

[Thomasx]

Great! Have you actually tried the LM235 with the Balmar and can confirm it worked as expected?

[NYSail]

That must be a lot of vibration.....

Greg

[Thomasx]

Originally Posted by NYSail

That must be a lot of vibration.....

Greg

For a small semiconductor soldered directly to wires, it is a lot of vibration...
To be honest, that was a pretty pointless post.

[NYSail]

Just saying..... I had this same sensor 9 years on another boat and now on new boat and have never had a problem with it...... and I guess I missed the original thread but never heard of this being an issue from anybody else. Sorry for my pointless experience.

Greg.

[Thomasx]

And how much of that "pointless experience" of yours do you think comes through in your post above? Doesn't really matter how long you ran yours, or how many others you didn't hear about. TS sensor broke twice anyway...
If you wanna be helpful, be helpful. If you wanna ask for help, ask for help. If neither, just scroll on, how hard can it be....
Cheers!

[4speedfunk]

I have very little knowledge of what you guys are talking about. But I do have a simple question maybe someone can answer:

Are the MC-TS-A (54" alternator temp sensor) and the MS-TS-B (20' battery temp sensor) interchangeable?

Why do I ask? I am planning on installing a new MC-614 and I want to hook-up both alternator and battery temp sensors. But all of my "stuff" (alternator, regulator, and batteries) are within 54" of each other, and it would be nice to use (2) MC-TS-A sensors, just to avoid coiling up twenty feet of unused wire.

Perhaps they have different temperature ranges or something? Normally I would ask Balmar but their website says it was hacked.

[smac999]

The ring holes are different sizes. Otherwise they will work ether way. The A is smaller and may not fit on a battery post. Probably 1/4”? Maybe bigger.

[4speedfunk]

Ok...thanks for the reply. I have gobs of ring terminals.

So the "A" & "B" refer more to "short" and "long", rather than "alternator" and "battery". Sort of what I expected.