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Old 29-07-2017, 14:30   #76
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
However since we are talking Smart Gauge here, maybe this one
Smart Gauge Battery Monitoring Unit Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com
I read this article three months ago leading up to purchasing the Smartgauge. Will the Smartgauge eventually get used to the solar? My solar controllers were also in float status when I reset to 100%, why would this be if the batteries were only charged to 93% or so?

How did you and your SG sort this out with your massive solar array? So... I should unplug my solar panels tomorrow, wait a while then reset to 100%? Or just wait til next week, plug into shorepower, charge, wait, then reset?
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Old 29-07-2017, 16:13   #77
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

There is no magic device that can tell your batteries are charged to 100% without fail. The smart gauge and the AH counting devices are trying to make educated guesses. But they are just guessing based on external measurements. They cannot "know" the state of charge. They are not infallible.

Believe your SG measurements. Equalize the next time you are at a dock for a couple days. But just don't worry too much about it until then.
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Old 29-07-2017, 16:45   #78
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

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There is no magic device that can tell your batteries are charged to 100% without fail. The smart gauge and the AH counting devices are trying to make educated guesses. But they are just guessing based on external measurements. They cannot "know" the state of charge. They are not infallible.

Believe your SG measurements. Equalize the next time you are at a dock for a couple days. But just don't worry too much about it until then.
I assume you mean Specific Gravity and not SmartGauge here.
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Old 29-07-2017, 17:26   #79
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

Yes, I meant specific gravity [emoji3]
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Old 29-07-2017, 21:01   #80
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

I see several issues with your charging. First, Trojan likes to see 29.6 volts for absorption - 14.8 for a 12 volt system. Your solar controllers are pre-set Genasun that cannot be adjusted to the proper voltage. Genasun controllers have different absorption voltage depending on model but none as high as 29.6. That means charging will be slower as voltage is pressure. The other issue is premature float. For a boat that is lived on with constant loads I would recommend no float from solar in most cases. The only exception would be someone with a very large solar array relative to their bank size. You cannot adjust float with a Genasun either. The absorption time is either 2 or 2 1/2 hours with Genasun controllers. Way too short, especially for a bank the size of yours.

Were I planning a solar system for your situation I would use 100% programmable controllers such as Victron - there are many others such as Morningstar, Outback, Midnite and so on but I know Victron best. I would set the absorption voltage at 29.6 and raise float to the same level, effectively turning it off. It would bring the bank to 100% SOC as well as do it much faster.

Also, Smartgauge or AH counter, the best way to tell if the bank is full is to measure current at absorption voltage. When the current is .5% of bank size - in your case 2.25 amps - the bank is full. A standard AH counter will allow this.
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Old 29-07-2017, 21:27   #81
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

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Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I see several issues with your charging. First, Trojan likes to see 29.6 volts for absorption - 14.8 for a 12 volt system. Your solar controllers are pre-set Genasun that cannot be adjusted to the proper voltage. Genasun controllers have different absorption voltage depending on model but none as high as 29.6. That means charging will be slower as voltage is pressure. The other issue is premature float. For a boat that is lived on with constant loads I would recommend no float from solar in most cases. The only exception would be someone with a very large solar array relative to their bank size. You cannot adjust float with a Genasun either. The absorption time is either 2 or 2 1/2 hours with Genasun controllers. Way too short, especially for a bank the size of yours.

Were I planning a solar system for your situation I would use 100% programmable controllers such as Victron - there are many others such as Morningstar, Outback, Midnite and so on but I know Victron best. I would set the absorption voltage at 29.6 and raise float to the same level, effectively turning it off. It would bring the bank to 100% SOC as well as do it much faster.

Also, Smartgauge or AH counter, the best way to tell if the bank is full is to measure current at absorption voltage. When the current is .5% of bank size - in your case 2.25 amps - the bank is full. A standard AH counter will allow this.
Excellent post, and excellent advice, trumping all the previous. (I hate to use that otherwise useful term these days).

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Old 29-07-2017, 21:40   #82
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

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Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I see several issues with your charging. First, Trojan likes to see 29.6 volts for absorption - 14.8 for a 12 volt system. Your solar controllers are pre-set Genasun that cannot be adjusted to the proper voltage. Genasun controllers have different absorption voltage depending on model but none as high as 29.6. That means charging will be slower as voltage is pressure. The other issue is premature float. For a boat that is lived on with constant loads I would recommend no float from solar in most cases. The only exception would be someone with a very large solar array relative to their bank size. You cannot adjust float with a Genasun either. The absorption time is either 2 or 2 1/2 hours with Genasun controllers. Way too short, especially for a bank the size of yours.

Were I planning a solar system for your situation I would use 100% programmable controllers such as Victron - there are many others such as Morningstar, Outback, Midnite and so on but I know Victron best. I would set the absorption voltage at 29.6 and raise float to the same level, effectively turning it off. It would bring the bank to 100% SOC as well as do it much faster.

Also, Smartgauge or AH counter, the best way to tell if the bank is full is to measure current at absorption voltage. When the current is .5% of bank size - in your case 2.25 amps - the bank is full. A standard AH counter will allow this.
Since I already own and have installed the Genasun controllers, is there a workaround for my situation? My Trojan bank is presently charging at a 28.65-28.8v bulk charge voltage. The Trojan owners manual recommends 28.8v for bulk charge for our 24v system and 27.0v for float which is also how my Mastervolt chargers are set and the readings I get. The Genasun is also preset for 28.8v bulk charging. I don't see the problem?
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Old 29-07-2017, 22:12   #83
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

Look at table 4. Table 6 is for Gel cells.
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Old 29-07-2017, 22:43   #84
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

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Look at table 4. Table 6 is for Gel cells.
Thanks, it was 6am here when I missed that.

But now that I read the correct chart, Trojan recommends 28.2v-29.4v for absorption, and my battery chargers are delivering 28.8v, so everything should be fine.

Correct chart:
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Old 29-07-2017, 23:51   #85
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Since I already own and have installed the Genasun controllers, is there a workaround for my situation? My Trojan bank is presently charging at a 28.65-28.8v bulk charge voltage. The Trojan owners manual recommends 28.8v for bulk charge for our 24v system and 27.0v for float which is also how my Mastervolt chargers are set and the readings I get. The Genasun is also preset for 28.8v bulk charging. I don't see the problem?
Do you have breakers in solar circuit that would allow you to turn them off? If so that may be the way go from float back to bulk/absorption.
Unfortunately adjusting absorption Voltage dosent seem possible on your regulators, not much you can do about that. I have the same issue with my bluesky regs. On my last boat I had a morningstar that I could custom program allowing absorption voltage to be higher and float to be switched off.

But in reality your system will be fine with the regs you have, equalize them and then just do what your doing.
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Old 29-07-2017, 23:57   #86
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

Today's plan to gain understanding:

The Smartgauge read 73% at 6am.

I ran the generator for 45 minutes to bring it up to 84% with 22amps going into the bank.

Will let solar take care of everything until 4pm then give the batteries a kick using the generator for 40-60 minutes to get a full charge or until less than 2 amps going in. Let things cool, then reset Smartgauge.

I'm not obsessing on this stuff, just trying to get a better understanding, so that when my wife returns.... which will result in our electrical needs increasing dramatically, I can get into a charging pattern/schedule. Such as running the generator for 45 minutes in the morning, then solar all day. 'Just need to establish a reference point such as a percent charge on the Smartgauge or number of amps going in while the generator is running.
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Old 30-07-2017, 00:00   #87
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

You should take specific gravity readings before assuming you are at 100%
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Old 30-07-2017, 00:20   #88
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

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You should take specific gravity readings before assuming you are at 100%
I will this afternoon before I reset the Smartgauge.

Thanks

This will have to do until I'm able to equalize.
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Old 30-07-2017, 04:59   #89
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

Don't bother with the PM genny run when the bank is near full, that runtime is much more productive in the AM before solar.

Get things so the solar charge current Amps drops to 1% of the bank AH well before cocktail hour.

With higher usage or cloudy weather, may mean doubling genny runtime in the AM, it'll take time but with the SG will eventually be instinct.
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Old 30-07-2017, 07:22   #90
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Re: Are My Batteries Toast?

I did what the pilot said to do, I kicked the battery bank in the amp this afternoon for an hour after the solar went 100% into float status. The charger ran for 1.5 hours worth of 6amps which returned the Smartgauge back up to 100% on it's own which is where it will stay (hopefully) until the sun sets. I checked the specific gravity a little while later (1/2hr) and half the cells were at 1.275-1.277 or 100% and the other half were between 1.265-1.270, and one battery at 1.255-1.260. So I'm going with these figures for 100%. On a Trojan 24v 450ah battery bank five years old, things look surprising good.

I've set my Magnetronic capacity to 420ah just to see how things match up and will make adjustments tomorrow if necessary.

It's looking increasingly likely that my goal to run the generator for only 1-1.5 hours every other day in the morning is within reach.
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