AGM battery brands

[Ded reckoner]

We bought two Victron AGM Super Cycle 8D batteries (part number BAT412123081) for our house bank in December. The principal attraction to me was the depth of discharge doesn't need the same scrutiny; i.e. these AGM batteries are okay with periodic deep discharges. So far, it's lived up to it's claims. We have experienced no problems. I would buy them again.

Previously, we had bought O'Reilly Auto Parts AGM8D (for the house bank) and AGM4D (for the engine) because these were the least expensive AGM batteries we could find. These lasted three years to the day in Texas heat.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Batteries we currently have are the ones in post #16 X 8 hooked up as 24v
Approx 880ah @ 24v
These were suggested and sold to us by the Victron agency when we got the victron 5000/120 inverter charger.when we first purchased the boat 5 years ago

We have been cruising full time since then, no marinas.

Charge comes from 2500w of solar and a midnite classic 150 mppt
And a 7.5kw Genset if required



I don't have a budget as such but, I don't spend/ waste hard-earned for the hell of it.

For example I refuse to buy apple product not because I can't afford it but because for my usage, a $40 android phone has worked as a phone and mobile hotspot for the 5 years we have been out here.
I can't see how a $1000 iPhone will serve me any better.

The same will go for batteries.

I hear lifelines are great batteries?
But here, 12v 220ah variants are around $1500 each X 8 that's $12000.
Could I afford that? Yes
But reading the article below....



His new batteries lasted 5+ years?
Is that supposed to be good?
We have got 5 years from our cheap TBB brand @ $350 each X 8 for $2800
Why would I spend the big money when I won't necessarily get the big result?

Just checking on battery options for you. You are being cheated by someone on Lifeline batteries. The L16T is about $700 here so $2,800 for a 24V 400Ah bank. It’s one of the two banks I have.

The lifespan of a battery is expressed in cycles. You can simply look those up but use tables because the number reduces when cycles go deeper. Manufacturers like Lifeline supply graphs.

I think it’s probably the government of Australia that takes the price difference as tax and duties. You may need to find local alternatives that don’t get those import penalties. Batteries like the L16 form factor often do better because they are made for really tough applications like forklifts etc.

You are close to China though. You could contact Julia Yu (she’s on the forum) for Winston cells. A 400Ah battery with Winston cells easily replaces your current 880Ah battery. The cost would be about $3,200 for the cells plus shipping. I spent another $1000 to complete the battery. I don’t know how much import duty and tax would be put on top of that for you.

[Ded reckoner]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The Victrons are manufactured in Vietnam, if that makes any difference to you.

I think being made in Vietnam should at least get some consideration. Here's a first hand account. I ordered three pairs of a particular K-Swiss shoe in size 13. I received three pairs but the first pair was about size 12, the second about size 11, and the third about size 10 (although all were labelled size 13). I contacted K-Swiss, sent them a photo of my current set of shoes and the 3 new sets all side-by-side, and told them they had a quality control problem. Unfortunately, they were nonchalant about the whole thing. I suppose profit margins must be pretty good even with customer returns.

There might be a difference in quality control between textiles and battery manufacturing. But, I think there's a problem with work ethic and worker and management concern about quality that was endemic in socialism that takes time to improve in any transition to a more market-based economy. I don't think China is there yet. And, I certainly don't think Vietnam is.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

hehehe, one battery for Perkins 4.236, and one for the genset (but half a P2150 would be enough for this), but have been thinking to have only battery for both, as they never run at the same time. Having two, I either battery to start either engine.
In my RV a Perkins as well, newer engine, a few more horses.

Thanks for the explanation - makes sense!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

.........

I think it’s probably the government of Australia that takes the price difference as tax and duties. You may need to find local alternatives that don’t get those import penalties. Batteries like the L16 form factor often do better because they are made for really tough applications like forklifts etc.
............

AFAIK, there is no Australian import duties for products manufactured in the USA (eg Lifeline / Odyssey etc) - free trade agreements exist between Australia and USA.

Freight is a killer though and all batteries (like most other products) attract a 10% GST at the point of retail sale. In Australia it is normal to include the GST component when quoting prices.

And while Lifeline and Odyssey are excellent batteries, here they cost roughly twice the price of the locally manufactured products but they simply don't have twice the life cycles.

Maybe they withstand abuse better but I suspect not.

If I was planning to travel to remote areas for long periods I would (or might) spring for Lifelines as part of the risk assessment of having dead batteries when away from replacements.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

.................
His new batteries lasted 5+ years?
Is that supposed to be good?
We have got 5 years from our cheap TBB brand @ $350 each X 8 for $2800
Why would I spend the big money when I won't necessarily get the big result?

Exactly....

But if you want the best, you gotta pay for it (even if you don't need it)...

However one reason some buy the top shelf batteries is because they don't have determine if the other brands are good enough or not.

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Just checking on battery options for you. You are being cheated by someone on Lifeline batteries. The L16T is about $700 here so $2,800 for a 24V 400Ah bank. It’s one of the two banks I have.

The lifespan of a battery is expressed in cycles. You can simply look those up but use tables because the number reduces when cycles go deeper. Manufacturers like Lifeline supply graphs.

I think it’s probably the government of Australia that takes the price difference as tax and duties. You may need to find local alternatives that don’t get those import penalties. Batteries like the L16 form factor often do better because they are made for really tough applications like forklifts etc.

You are close to China though. You could contact Julia Yu (she’s on the forum) for Winston cells. A 400Ah battery with Winston cells easily replaces your current 880Ah battery. The cost would be about $3,200 for the cells plus shipping. I spent another $1000 to complete the battery. I don’t know how much import duty and tax would be put on top of that for you.

Australia is a high cost country. The importer/wholesaler/retailer can be 3 different businesses, each wanting a margin. Even if the retailer is the importer they will argue that Australia is a low volume market so margins needs to be higher. I get that, but when there is little competition then customers end up paying for poor & inefficient management via those fat margins. Worst case is where someone secures a 'sole importer' licence from a manufacturer. As to taxes, GST is 10% and duty on batteries is 5% unless there is an FTA exemption. Not enough to account for the high prices we are confronted with.

I saw a reference above to Victron Super Cycle batteries. The PR sounds interesting, but I can't find any reviews on performance. A fairly new product so we will need to wait a few years for that I guess. Here are some:
https://www.outbackmarine.com.au/vic...tt.-m8-introdu

So an 850Ah bank (24V) would cost $6,190. At least that's better than some of the local options thrown up in this thread. But still a bit of sticker shock....

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

Australia is a high cost country. The importer/wholesaler/retailer can be 3 different businesses, each wanting a margin. Even if the retailer is the importer they will argue that Australia is a low volume market so margins needs to be higher. I get that, but when there is little competition then customers end up paying for poor & inefficient management via those fat margins. Worst case is where someone secures a 'sole importer' licence from a manufacturer. As to taxes, GST is 10% and duty on batteries is 5% unless there is an FTA exemption. Not enough to account for the high prices we are confronted with.

.........

You nailed it with this comment. I tried to buy a watermaker while in Australia. I was fully expecting to pay more for the local service/delivery. When I went to negotiate the unit price with the store owner, I gave him my price buying direct in the US plus shipping. He said he couldn't negotiate with me because he was paying more for the unit wholesale in Australia than I could buy it for retail in the US, This is all without GST.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

.

I saw a reference above to Victron Super Cycle batteries. The PR sounds interesting, but I can't find any reviews on performance. A fairly new product so we will need to wait a few years for that I guess. Here are some:
https://www.outbackmarine.com.au/vic...tt.-m8-introdu

So an 850Ah bank (24V) would cost $6,190. At least that's better than some of the local options thrown up in this thread. But still a bit of sticker shock....

That's a 680ah bank
It would be the next ones up to be comparable to what I have now @ $6776
https://www.outbackmarine.com.au/vic...tt.-m8-introdu

Interesting that in the very first post I linked to these victron 220ah variants
A fair bit cheaper @ $5416 and also a fair bit heavier which I thought in this type off battery heavy = better.
https://www.springers.com.au/shop/pr...cycle-agm-3409

[Sailor647]

We installed eight Group 27s Fullrivers in August 2015.

Still going strong 6 years later and they have been used every day.

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

That's a 680ah bank

No, the arithmetic is simple: 10 x $619 = $6,190. And 10 x 170 Ah 12V batteries can be wired to give 850Ah @ 24V

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

No, the arithmetic is simple: 10 x $619 = $6,190. And 10 x 170 Ah 12V batteries can be wired to give 850Ah @ 24V

Not so simple when I am set up to take 8 x 220ah size batts and cables to suit.
Your option has me doing modifications both storage wise and electrical

[Morrissey]

Are the 220AH one's 8D form factor? The one's I referred to have an entirely different footprint, who know how many you could fit it. Er, more arithmetic required. Sorry.

And cabling is easy.

[catalystcat]

A somewhat random suggestion. You might check on places that are doing Li upgrades on newer boats.
I have spoken with a few service places over the past year. A lot of people have been upgrading AGMs for Li and some of the service places take in the AGMs for exchange. A couple of them have told me they are drowning in AGMs.
Some of these are pretty much brand new batteries. My boat is one example of an upgrade on a relatively new boat. If you were in the US, I'll have 800Ah of Mastervolt AGMs (2019 with one season on them) coming out of my boat in October.

[kvstein]

Some of my Odyssey batteries are over 10 years old. I do keep them properly charged. I did lose one several years ago and it was difficult to figure out which one in the bank to replace. They are expensive initially but cheaper in the long run.