ABYC E-8.17.4 (L2 conductor label)

[ramblinrod]

OK, lets start counting the mistakes....

Originally Posted by evm1024

As we see from ABYC E-8.17.4...

Error 1:

As previously mentioned, ABYC standard E8 is long outdated and obsolete.

Please refer to the current standard, that has been in effect for many years, "ABYC E11 AC and DC Electrical Systems On Boats"

Originally Posted by evm1024

... ungrounded conductors are identified by (optionally) the letters X, Y, and Z or L1, L2, and L3.

Error # 2:

I believe what you are attempting to refer to is...

11.13.3.3 Power wiring for receptacles shall be connected so that the grounded (white) conductor attaches to the terminal identified by the word "white" or a light color (normally white or silver). The ungrounded conductor(s) shall be attached to the terminal(s) identified by a dark color (normally brass or copper) and, optionally, the letters X, Y, and Z or L1, L2, and L3.

This standard does not identify how the installer shall label or identify the conductor.

It identifies how the receptacle manufacturer shall identify the terminals, that the installer is to connect a wire to.

Again, ABYC standards do not prohibit the installer from labelling the conductor anything they wish, including "L2".

Originally Posted by evm1024

This is the ABYC saying that L2 is an ungrounded conductor.

Error # 3:

No it isn't. It is you stating. If you wish to prove me wrong, show me anywhere in ABYC E11, where it stated that "L2 is an ungrounded conductor".

You are muddling up conductors vs device terminals. Two different things.

Originally Posted by evm1024

...and by simple LOGIC that L2 is not a grounded (i.e. neutral) conductor.

Error # 4.

Wrong again.

This is where your simple logic is turning a mistake into multiple mistakes.

Originally Posted by evm1024

And yet some argue. So ABYC was asked...

Error # 5:

Again, and you seem to be disregarding the inconvenient truth, that you neglected to communicate that the electrical source may be floating, in which case, the response would have been that electrical supply is not ABYC compliant if one leg is not grounded, and if neither leg is grounded, there is no "Neutral".

Originally Posted by evm1024

Further indication that the ABYC stance is that L2 is an ungrounded conductor.

Error # 6: Wrong again. The "L2" you are referring to is an optional marking by the manufacturer of an ungrounded terminal on a receptacle, it does not refer to the installer labelling of a conductor at all.

Originally Posted by evm1024

And yet some...go on to say that they can mark the grounded (neutral) conductors "L2" if they want to.

OMG, this is correct. ;-)

If you don't believe so, please show me where in ABYC E11 it prohibits an installer labelling a conductor whatever they wish.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Refusing to admit that ABYC has stated that the ungrounded conductor is neutral and not L2.

And yet another gross error. This is #7 since I started counting.

It is the grounded conductor that may be referred to as "Neutral".

Note the word "may" (meaning optional) not "shall" (meaning not optional).

BTW, you have a question waiting for your response in post #44.

Please don't make me repeat my request and just answer it.

[evm1024]

There you go again....

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

OK, lets start counting the mistakes....



Error 1:

As previously mentioned, ABYC standard E8 is long outdated and obsolete.

Please refer to the current standard, that has been in effect for many years, "ABYC E11 AC and DC Electrical Systems On Boats"



Error # 2:

I believe what you are attempting to refer to is...

11.13.3.3 Power wiring for receptacles shall be connected so that the grounded (white) conductor attaches to the terminal identified by the word "white" or a light color (normally white or silver). The ungrounded conductor(s) shall be attached to the terminal(s) identified by a dark color (normally brass or copper) and, optionally, the letters X, Y, and Z or L1, L2, and L3.

This standard does not identify how the installer shall label or identify the conductor.

It identifies how the receptacle manufacturer shall identify the terminals, that the installer is to connect a wire to.

Again, ABYC standards do not prohibit the installer from labelling the conductor anything they wish, including "L2".



Error # 3:

No it isn't. It is you stating. If you wish to prove me wrong, show me anywhere in ABYC E11, where it stated that "L2 is an ungrounded conductor".

You are muddling up conductors vs device terminals. Two different things.



Error # 4.

Wrong again.

This is where your simple logic is turning a mistake into multiple mistakes.



Error # 5:

Again, and you seem to be disregarding the inconvenient truth, that you neglected to communicate that the electrical source may be floating, in which case, the response would have been that electrical supply is not ABYC compliant if one leg is not grounded, and if neither leg is grounded, there is no "Neutral".



Error # 6: Wrong again. The "L2" you are referring to is an optional marking by the manufacturer of an ungrounded terminal on a receptacle, it does not refer to the installer labelling of a conductor at all.



OMG, this is correct. ;-)

If you don't believe so, please show me where in ABYC E11 it prohibits an installer labelling a conductor whatever they wish.

[weavis]

Gentlemen.

As a medical professional, I often encounter differences in opinion regarding aspects of treatment and causations of disease in our profession.

About 25 years ago, I stopped listening to the words and looked at the people speaking. I came the conclusion that certain physicians felt that they were right 100% of the time and defended their utterances to the death regardless of the facts...... and that others would present their observations carefully in the light of knowledge and protocol and try to do the job properly.

The outcome of my own observations, is that I no longer get involved in these type of medical discussions......My rationale for this is that:

1/. You cant fix stupid and
2/. You cant help the helpless.

Cruisers Forum is a wonderful place. Lots of help and lots of experience. I remind everyone that it is a CHAT forum and will be filled with accuracy and rubbish in equal measure. ANYTHING POSTED here can only be evaluated as useful in the knowledge that its FREE advice, but not necessarily correct.

So now we have this thread discussing matters of a technical nature and between professionals.

I see that the medical field does not have exclusivity on the attitude of the people when it comes to attitudes displayed in discussions.

There is no obligation for any CF member to write or respond on any thread. REGARDLESS of what some feel is provocation, there is no obligation. There is no obligation to try and correct what is felt as incorrect advice from a professional other than to state that you disagree, give your facts and then if argument ensues, walk away.

Let me tell you what the outcome of this situation is. People will lose trust and respect for single contributors in this discussion based on the ATTITUDE displayed. Attitude makes a customer examine deeper, and if doubt enters the mind of the customer regarding knowledge, then a customer is lost.

As an individual mod, I am closing this thread pending mod discussion. It may open again, it may not... that is up to the team. For me it has become pointless.