6vdc Trojan T105 (225ah) Equalization

[john61ct]

Confused.

It is not up to you nor the charge source whether you are in Bulk (CC) or Absorb (CV). It is up to the battery's chemistry, the relationship between SoC and resistance.

You just set the target voltage, and while the charger "strives" to get there at maximum amps, that is Bulk (CC).

The only regulation involved is keeping Voltage at the max level you set once it hits it, the transition from Bulk to Absorb.

Then you will see Amps start to decline, and you stop charging when you see the trailing amps hit your mfg spec'd endAmps.

[john61ct]

You should not start equalizing until the bank has already reached endAmps-Full at the high end of mfg spec'd Absorb voltage.

Which is just your normal charge cycle when on mains power. If your usual charger cannot do that it should be replaced, much more critical to get that right than the conditioning process.

[ben39]

I just post my experience about equalizing with externally alternator controllers.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...postid=2648565

If you look for a solution to equaling your batteries with a alternator, read my experience.

[rgleason]

Yes, John. The day before I had run my engine for 5 hours using the Balmar ARS-5 through -b- Bulk, -A- absorption, -F- flood, after having changed the + wire. I then left my Guest 10amp connected overnight to be sure it was fully charged. I don't believe they were fully charged however, even after that routine. My Guest charger will put out over 14 amps in bulk.

I am not so happy about this DC Power Source however. Maybe I don't know how to run it, the meters are only approximate, I used the clamp meter, starting with "a clamp meter the readings I got were 7.36v and 5.06a. ".

Originally Posted by john61ct

Confused.

It is not up to you nor the charge source whether you are in Bulk (CC) or Absorb (CV). It is up to the battery's chemistry, the relationship between SoC and resistance.

You just set the target voltage, and while the charger "strives" to get there at maximum amps, that is Bulk (CC).

The only regulation involved is keeping Voltage at the max level you set once it hits it, the transition from Bulk to Absorb.

Then you will see Amps start to decline, and you stop charging when you see the trailing amps hit your mfg spec'd endAmps.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by rgleason

I don't believe they were fully charged however, even after that routine.

I agree, never will until you get up to proper Absorb V.

Until you replace the Guest, just keep resetting it, whatever trickery needed to keep it at 14+ untul you measure endAmps.
Only then start finishing regular charging on each 6V separately, then together.

And then you're ready to start equalizing.

Better (pricier) gear makes things quicker and easier, but you should be able to kludge with what you have.

Consider returning that new PS go to 20A?

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Battery #2 was charged from 12:30 to 19:00. It was charged at 7.35v and started at 2.41amps and ended at 1.3 amps at 13:45. Then I tried to charge at 8.1 volts but the Variable 1-30v 10amp DC Power source was not able to do this. The best I could do was 7.79v at 7.22amps, and the highest I dared go was 7.8v at 9.47amps. This had to be done by controlling the current because Constant Voltage would not work in that range. The electrolyte was bubbling away and would occasionally burp. The reading at the end that I got was 1280 in each cell (my skills reading this could certainly be improved).

Your power supply is in EITHER CV mode or CC mode it can't be in both at the same time. It is either limited by the current it is set to, or can produce, or by voltage but not both at the same time. Your power supply should tell you if it is in CC or CV.....

If the battery is taking more current than the supply can deliver it is in CC/Constant Current/Bulk. There should be a light identifying CV or CC.

On most cheap power supplies, if you try to adjust CV dial during CC/bulk you will have NO IDEA where you set it and run a huge risk of over charging when the SOC rises enough so current finally drops to a level that allows the power supply to enter CV mode. Unless you have a power supply with dedicated sense leads and a "live" voltage set capability $$$$ don't set voltage when connected to a load unless the current the load can take is really minuscule.

Once you are in CV mode voltage will remain steady and current will decline. This is why I said earlier that you set the voltage level BEFORE you connect it to a battery and double check it with a DVM. You then connect it to the battery and let it do its thing.

Your batteries were simply not absorbed long enough to allow current to drop to a level that allowed you to EQ them as a pair. In parallel you have a 450Ah bank at 6V. Voltage is pressure and as you increase the voltage to 16V the current needed will be a lot more, even if at 7.35V (14.7V) it was down to 3A. If you start at 3A at 14.7V you're likely going to exceed 10A, at least for a while, when attempting to parallel charge two 6V batteries at 16.2V.

FWIW this is all that is needed to maintain a full 12V 400Ah bank of L16's at 12V..


Notice the power supply is set at 14.4V (not the optimal charge voltage for these batteries) and is in CV/constant voltage mode (CV-red light) maintaining 14.4V. It takes just 0.1A at 14.4V to maintain this 400Ah bank of L16 batteries at a CV of 14.4V.

In other words I like to see approx .5% acceptance before I even consider equalizing batteries. If it takes a long time to get there, the batteries are suffering from sulfation and need a good high CV for longer.

[john61ct]

A relevant thread about a FOSS internal VR project for those interested in precision charging using alternators.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ct-179240.html

[rgleason]

John wrote:

I agree, never will until you get up to proper Absorb V.

Until you replace the Guest, just keep resetting it, whatever trickery needed to keep it at 14+ until you measure end Amps. Only then start finishing regular charging on each 6V separately, then together.

And then you're ready to start equalizing.

Better (pricier) gear makes things quicker and easier, but you should be able to kludge with what you have.

Consider returning that new PS go to 20A?

Yes, John, perhaps the Guest is not fully charging the batteries, nor is my Balmar Alt and Regulator, particularly because after using the Guest for 24 hours on both batteries, I then use the Variable 1-30 Power Source set at 7.35 amps and it is still requiring 2-4.5 amps to reach 7.35 amps and I have to continue that regimen for 3 to 4 hours, before even trying 8.1 volts (and that has not been achievable). - I thought the Balmar Alt and Regulator charging from -b-, -A- & -F- followed by 12 hrs of Guest charging would really fully charge the batteries.

Next time I am near a Land based Power Source I will have to try the unplug and replug idea to see if it stays up at the 14.1 (or 14.3) voltage.

Do you have a favorite charger which would work for me? The Guest is a replacement of an earlier Guest, but it is at least 7-10 years old.

Would you return the DC Power Source? Maybe you have the right idea for (2) T-105 6vdc batteries, ...get a good charger, so the batteries are really fully charged, and then it doesn't take hours and hours to equalize!

Mainesail wrote:

If the battery is taking more current than the supply can deliver it is in CC/Constant Current/Bulk. There should be a light identifying CV or CC.

Once you are in CV mode voltage will remain steady and current will decline. This is why I said earlier that you set the voltage level BEFORE you connect it to a battery and double check it with a DVM. You then connect it to the battery and let it do its thing.

Your batteries were simply not absorbed long enough to allow current to drop to a level that allowed you to EQ them as a pair.
Yes there was a nice indication for CV and CC with some dots as indicators of something. Sometimes it is one dot or two or three. The instructions were not specific about these indicators. However the battery required too much current to be in CV I believe, so it switched to CC.

John also indicated that the battery was not fully prepared through Asorption Voltage... [even though it had been charged for 5-6 hours by the Engine Balmar Alt/Reg through -F- and then used the Guest for 12 hrs...!!]
... the battery takes too much current and will not get up to the required 8.1 voltage with my DC Power Source. This may be true, but there sure was a lot of energy pumped into those batteries.

How long do I have to run each battery in absorption mode at 7.35v? (I believe John said he runs it until the current creeps down to 1 amp.

Next post is today's run, in more detail, trying to "equalize" Battery #1, maybe this is more successful. I will let you guys be the judge.

Your comments are very helpful, in guiding me through this process, thank you. It is a messy with sulfuric acid bubbling and some of it getting out when the caps are off. The gloves and glasses are good precautions and it seems to take hours and lots of energy. I can understand why some people like Gel or Agm now.

BTW I checked our records, this is the beginning of the 4th season.

[Maine Sail]

The factory supplied battery caps should remain on during EQ.

[rgleason]

Sunday, June 10
Battery #2 6.41v after sitting overnight with no charger & no load.
Battery #1 6.40v after sitting overnight same. SP=1233

Battery #1 on Variable DC Power

Time -DC Pwr -Clamp Meter
7:45am 7.6v 2.5a 7.35v 2.3a CV

10:05 7.5v 1.51a 7.35v 1.51a CV

10:05 8.7v 7.51a 7.88v 7.28a CC

1:30 8.5v 7.5a 7.80v 7.65a CC

1:50 1278 SG for all 3 cells.

2:20 8.7v 9.09a 7.82v 9.1a CC

2:25 1279 SG for all 3 cells.
2:25 Turned off the process and cleaned up.

While this was happening I managed to climb the mast and mount a replacement masthead light, a diagnosis project which is into its 3rd year. I must say I got more satisfaction completing the masthead light project (I hope it will work now) than "trying" to equalize my batteries, as I am given generous but limited time at the dock in commissioning, and next year I will do this in my basement before bringing the batteries to the boat! -If they last so long!

Should I continue to charge and then equalize whenever at the dock? There will be some opportunities in the weeks to come. If so, I will carry a DC Power Source. I think I need to get a better charger perhaps? But with the Balmar Alt and Regulator wired direct from the battery - / + to Regulator Black (-) and Red (+) and changing the Fdc program, won't the batteries become fully charged on long motor day?

[rgleason]

The factory supplied battery caps should remain on during EQ.

Yes, I did put them back in, but when you do the SG you have to take them off and the dam stuff is bubbling. I cleaned up small acid sprinkles on the top of the cover with a paper towel soaked in water.

[a64pilot]

My Balmar 614 won’t fully charge my bank yet, you have to “fiddle”with it a lot to get there, way it is now it drops to float way too soon.
I need to keep turning down the percent of output until I get close, sorry forget the abbreviation, it’s something like fbl?
Sorry, I believe its ffl.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Yes, I did put them back in, but when you do the SG you have to take them off and the dam stuff is bubbling. I cleaned up small acid sprinkles on the top of the cover with a paper towel soaked in water.

You don't check the SG with the EQ in progress you stop it, wait a bit and then check it...

[Maine Sail]

Why were you allowing the batteries to hit 8.7V? Were they really cold? This would be a 17.4V EQ for a 12V battery..

[john61ct]

1. Go back and slowly read the posts from the members you trust. Parse them carefully, you really have all the info you need.

2. For daily automatic charging I like Sterling ProCharge Ultra and ProMariner Pronautic P. Also look at Magnum with latest remotes, have a shunt so A-F transition happens based on trailing amps acceptance (endAmps setpoint) every time.

3. If you have time for the return, wait until you use a new charger, maybe 10A is OK as long as you don't start using it, one batt at a time, untill tgey truly are Full.