6vdc Trojan T105 (225ah) Equalization

[john61ct]

The conditioning cycle is primarily for preventing sulfation.

Balancing is different, but can be done as part of the process.

See post #32

[OceanPlanet]

Just monitor the individual 6V pack voltages. You might be fine.

[Jetx]

Originally Posted by john61ct

The conditioning cycle is primarily for preventing sulfation.

Balancing is different, but can be done as part of the process.

See post #32

Ahh.. that's a distinction I should have caught, but didn't. Reread your post #32, and that makes more sense to me now. Thanks!

[Jetx]

Originally Posted by OceanPlanet

Just monitor the individual 6V pack voltages. You might be fine.

Thanks Bruce... I'll do that. Appreciate the advice and experience shared by everyone in this discussion.

[rgleason]

Post #32 Trailing Voltages

I don't know this term "Trailing Voltages". (I guess trailing is the end of the time period)


Since the Adjustable DC Power Supply came yesterday, I will be equalizing our two little T-105 today and following John's advice in that post.

Since posting, I got the regulator working better with help from Dale and Tim from Balmar. My ARS5 regulator was charging with incorrect voltages, (actual voltage at regulator was different than calculated, also actual battery voltage was higher than calculated, 15v towards the end of charging).

My installation had the alternator Red + wire going to the Alt+. Dale had me run a new wire direct to the House Bank Battery + and check the other wiring using Balmar Troubleshooting instructions which were quite easy. I did not need the stator wire #7 and #8 because that is handled by the engine. Everything checked out ok, except they asked to disconnect the Battery Temp Sensor since it is cool outside and might be a cause of the elevated voltages at the battery. They also asked me to reset the battery program by selecting a different battery and saving it and then selecting Fdc for Flooded deep cycle again and saving. After these changes the bv battery and cv calculated matched up, but the actual battery voltage at the battery measured 14.8v and at the Regulator was measured at 4.79v which is 0.2 higher than what the Regulator was showing. I am not so sure this is good as these batteries will last longer if bulk charged at 14.6v, but Dale said to keep an eye on it.

I put the battery temp sensor back on and there seemed to be little to no change.
The last test showed that the regulator cycled properly through -b- bulk and -A- absorption and -F- float cycles, leaving the batteries charged. I then attached the Guest 10a 3-step charger overnight to be ready for equalization today.


I may wire Stu Jackson's Small Engine mode switch so that if the regulator hits > 14.8 I can drop the voltage.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by rgleason

My ARS5 regulator was charging with incorrect voltages, (actual voltage at regulator was different than calculated, also actual battery voltage was higher than calculated, 15v towards the end of charging).

This was all discussed in the article previously linked to. It is perhaps the number one installer error I see with external regulation that serves to hinder charging performance...

Originally Posted by rgleason

My installation had the alternator Red + wire going to the Alt+.

Not entirely your fault and why I have taken the time to write those articles on Balmar products, because the manual is wrong. Balmar is well aware of all the mistakes in the manuals, and the incorrect lingo that causes lots of confusion, but until the next generation of regulators come out the manuals are not going to change.

Originally Posted by rgleason

Dale had me run a new wire direct to the House Bank Battery +

Did he also have you move regulator B- to the banks negative terminal? This is the other half of the v-sense "circuit"..

Originally Posted by rgleason

Everything checked out ok, except they asked to disconnect the Battery Temp Sensor since it is cool outside and might be a cause of the elevated voltages at the battery.

This is why I asked, a few post back, if you were using a battery temp sensor. If the batteries are cold, and you are above your 77-80F target voltage, then the temp sensor is working as it should and compensating voltage UP for the actual cooler than 77-80F battery temp. It will also compensate voltage down when the batteries get hot.

Originally Posted by rgleason

After these changes the bv battery and cv calculated matched up, but the actual battery voltage at the battery measured 14.8v and at the Regulator was measured at 4.79v which is 0.2 higher than what the Regulator was showing.

I assume you meant 14.79V (not 4.79V) at the regulator and 14.80V at the batteries. If so this is a 0.01V difference and is well within margin of error of moving a meter from one location to the next. It would be difficult for battery voltage to be higher than what the regulator is seeing..

Originally Posted by rgleason

I am not so sure this is good as these batteries will last longer if bulk charged at 14.6v,

Bulk charging (actual bulk) is not limited by voltage it is only limited by wthe amount of current the alternator can produce. For Trojan "bulk" is a transition voltage where constant current charge is terminated and absorption begins. They recommend 14.82V then a drop 14.7V for absorption, but this is for a typical standby or golf type charging station where you have plenty of time to recharge.. The part most miss is that this voltage guidance is qualified by stating: "*If charging time is limited, contact Trojan Technical Support for assistance."

If you contact them, and get someone who knows something, they will tell you that for a PSOC use application an absorption of 14.8V -15.0V is more optimal and this means a .1V higher bv than Av for a bulk transition on a Balmar reg. Even an absorb of 14.7V will help the bank last longer than 14.6V but 14.8V is even better.


I've been setting FDC up anywhere between about 15.0V and an & 14.8V for about 15 years for absorption. Cycle life has been rather dramatically improved and they consistently outlast the boats I see set up for old school 14.2V - 14.6V..



This is not anything new, it's been known for nearly 20 years, after Sandia National Labs Photovoltaic Department discovered this in the late 90's. Even Rolls has finally caught on, now recommending 15.0V for bulk transition and absorption. US Battery was the first manufacturer to catch on to this and all the others thought they were crazy now the others are finally joining the party... Bottom line is that 14.6V for absorb would be bare minimum for a T105 and is not going to lead to as long a life as 14.8V. You will use slightly more water but some WaterMiser caps can help with that.

Originally Posted by rgleason

I may wire Stu Jackson's Small Engine mode switch so that if the regulator hits > 14.8 I can drop the voltage.

Small engine mode does not drop voltage it cuts output current by cutting available field potential to 50%. It is nothing more than a 50% cut to field potential. If the batteries are already at 14.8V they are voltage limited already and accepted current is already likely below the 50% field % threshold. Beyond that your batteries should be seeing 14.8V for at least 2-4 hours and this is actually good for them.

Programming a Balmar Regulator


Alternators & Voltage Sensing - Why it Matters




.

[rgleason]

Wow, Mainesail, I did review all your great information, including programming a Balmar and I am beginning to get used to the idea of doing my own settings. I was focused on getting it working properly, now time to fine tune.

I couldn't understand why ACS-5 was working properly for 2 years and then changed for some reason. I had an alpha regulator from Cruising Solutions (same harnass) for many many years, since 19993 and I keep it as backup. Some of the wiring is from that harness too.

Did he also have you move regulator B- to the banks negative terminal? This is the other half of the v-sense "circuit"..

No, I will make that change today! I did remove Red + from alternator, will do same with Black (Yes I guess I do remove the black from alternator as I did with red.) PS: I did mean 14.79v and I had no idea that battery temp made such a difference.

Mainesail quote https://marinehowto.com/alternators-voltage-sensing/

Because we have not completed the voltage sensing circuit, and the negative wire is still connected to the back of the alternator, we have not compensated for all the voltage drop, only half of it.

Thanks for clarifying that -b- Bulk is current limited and 14.82v is factory in bulk.

Mainesail...they will tell you that for a PSOC use application an absorption of 14.8V -15.0V is more optimal and this means a .1V higher bv than Av for a bulk transition on a Balmar reg. Even an absorb of 14.7V will help the bank last longer than 14.6V but 14.8V is even better.

Mainesail ...15.0V for bulk transition and absorption. US Battery was the first manufacturer to catch on to this and all the others thought they were crazy now the others are finally joining the party... Bottom line is that 14.6V for absorb would be bare minimum for a T105 and is not going to lead to as long a life as 14.8V. You will use slightly more water but some WaterMiser caps can help with that.

Wow, Thanks for setting me straight on charging routines.

So, the differences you recommend from the Balmar factory Flooded Lead Deep Cycle program are, for Trojan T-1105, using your "Balmar Programming Cheat Sheet" from your Balmar Regulator Pages

AHL = 15
bv = 15
Av = 14.8

Are there other settings I should change?


I am going to look into WaterMiser caps. Will it provide a "snorkle" to reduce spillage when heeling? Otherwise I will have to turn the battery case 90 degrees with new supports, and make all new cable wiring for the longer lengths.

[john61ct]

As should be obvious, info / advice from MS or Bruce should override any conflicting details from my summary blurb. I am but a humble student.

[daletournier]

The knowledge I've gained from this forum over the years regarding batteries and battery charging is very appreciated. Thanks Mainsail and others like John61 and a64.

My experience is that many cruisers have a very limited understanding regarding their batteries and charging regimes. Batteries are pretty tuff as they survive our ignorance for many years, surprisingly.

Just yesterday I'm talking to a cruiser about batteries and equalization. He no longer equalises his T105's as it's bad for them. Last time over a 8hr period they were boiling hot (his words) he distorted the casing pushing 30amps in at 16v. I just don't comment anymore, many really don't want to learn, or they think they already know. I'm far from being an expert thus I enjoy the learning, not all do.

Another case is a mate that has just replaced his bank of 12v trojans after only two years. His answer is a bigger bank! He runs a big front loading fridge and a separate big front loading freezer. I've politely tried to explain that he's killing his batteries everyday, their capacity is decreasing everyday, the severity of his constant PSOC, the benefits of equalisation (specially in his case) and unless he seriously increases his solar he is going to need some mechanical power generation first up in the morning to give his current solar a chance. His new batteries will be shot in under two years, the reality is his last bank was very diminished (what I would call dead) in less than 18mths. This new bank will go the same way, he's not particularly interested in learning more, I now say nothing.

These guys are "modern" world cruisers and their power draw is much greater than the world cruiser of yesterday, with that increase in power usage better understanding of power generation is required.

[swampbush]

When equalizing do other people disconnect loads like fridge, freezer or electronics? I am always nervous about such high voltages on electronics, and am not keen on leaving the freezer off for hours.
What is best practice?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by swampbush

When equalizing do other people disconnect loads like fridge, freezer or electronics? I am always nervous about such high voltages on electronics, and am not keen on leaving the freezer off for hours.
What is best practice?

You should.
I don’t. A lot depends of course on how high the voltage is, in my case it’s only 15.5 and it seems my electronics are not upset by that.
I believe a Secop controller will be fine until 17 volts, go above that and it assumes you have a 24 V system, but will still be OK.
Not sure as I have never thrown those kinds of volts at mine.
It seems most of my electronics can handle voltage from 10 to 30 V if memory serves, of course there may be the odd thing that can’t, so check first and throw the breakers on what you don’t have to have.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by rgleason

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I may wire Stu Jackson's Small Engine mode switch so that if the regulator hits > 14.8 I can drop the voltage.

MS beat me to it.


One little tip that has worked for me over the years is to put some time & space between the manual and me sometimes.


I've often gone back a few days later and re-read it and said: "Oh, so THAT'S what they meant!"


Sometimes coupled with "So why didn't they say so to begin with?"


But not always...


Good luck, you're getting there.

[rgleason]

Yes, absolutely disconnect, Trojan says "no loads" and also how would you know the state of charge and when to stop? Having loads just confuses the entire process, as there is no known set of benchmarks as you take your readings every hour and write them down.

Originally Posted by swampbush

When equalizing do other people disconnect

loads like fridge, freezer or electronics? I am always nervous about such high voltages on electronics, and am not keen on leaving the freezer off for hours.
What is best practice?

[a64pilot]

You know your loads and what is going into the bank by looking at your battery monitor if you have one.
If the shunt is installed correctly it only sees what is going into or out of the battery.
Right now mine says 0.0 but my charger is making 11.6. That tells me my load is 11.6 and I have zero going into the bank.

The loads are absorbed by the charger, nothing comes out of the bank unless you exceed charger capacity

[rgleason]

Today I did not manage to get to wiring the Negative wire direct from Regulator to Bat -, but I did experience the process of equalizing. I had left a Guest 12vdc 10amp 3 step charger on the batteries overnight, hoping they would be fully charged in the morning.

The Guest was floating at 13.4v overnight. SP readings were not so good, right the bottom of Fair, just into the good area.

I hooked the batteries up in parallel and charged them with the new Adjustible 0-30v DC Power source. This device was set at 8.0v and 4.76amps on the screen, by measuring with a clamp meter the readings I got were 7.36v and 5.06a. I found that the DC power source would only do Constant Voltage with lower amperage, so I simply adjusted amps to achieve the desired voltage for the next hour. The clamp ameter/voltmeter last reading in parallel was 7.35v and 3.0amps. I figured amps is down to 1.5 per battery so I switched to just charging separate batteries.

Battery #2 was charged from 12:30 to 19:00. It was charged at 7.35v and started at 2.41amps and ended at 1.3 amps at 13:45. Then I tried to charge at 8.1 volts but the Variable 1-30v 10amp DC Power source was not able to do this. The best I could do was 7.79v at 7.22amps, and the highest I dared go was 7.8v at 9.47amps. This had to be done by controlling the current because Constant Voltage would not work in that range. The electrolyte was bubbling away and would occasionally burp. The reading at the end that I got was 1280 in each cell (my skills reading this could certainly be improved).

I wanted to get started with Battery #1 as I was running out of daytime, so I stopped on #2 even though it had not reached 8.1v (is this voltage absolutely necessary?)

I did get two hours of normal charging on #1 at 7.35v 2.65amps. Then for the next hour I tried to equalize at 8.1v but the highest voltage I dared o was 7.81 at 8amps.
Again I controlled this by increasing the amps/currents, because this new variable DC Power Source would not operate under Constant Voltage at that high an amperage.

I am kind of wishing I had gotten a 20amp variable DC Power Source, right now.
I will have to finish the equalizing tomorrow and run that neg wire that MaineSail suggested.

I have taken the suggestions TIPS and advice from this forum and written a txt document, which I will upload tomorrow.