50/60Hz 115 v reverse cycle air conditioning

[SV Enough]

Time for me to contribute something back for all the Faboulous help I have gotten here.

Having gotten past the 220 to 115 volt step down with help here and secured key 50/60 products for most of our needs I ran into a brick wall for air conditioning.

Then I found https://www.webasto.com/us/markets-p...-fcf-platinum/ which at least offered a way forward. I offer it here for your consideration without comment.

[john61ct]

I'm only familiar with their heating units, but have to say they've got a great reputation for attention to technical detail and build quality.

One caveat is service, it's worth spending a bit more to buy it from A guy you know will be there for that later on, may be thin on the ground in the US?

[SV Enough]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

Time for me to contribute something back for all the Faboulous help I have gotten here.



Having gotten past the 220 to 115 volt step down with help here and secured key 50/60 products for most of our needs I ran into a brick wall for air conditioning.



Then I found https://www.webasto.com/us/markets-p...-fcf-platinum/ which at least offered a way forward. I offer it here for your consideration without comment.

I have not mentioned to this point we are outfitting to go to Europe and are fitting a Charles Industries 7.5 KVA step down transformer. Webasto literature does not state the 115 v unit is 50/60 Hz capable however I have gotten repeated assurances, to their surprise, that they have tested it and it does and will cover it under warranty if operated as such. They say they don't market as having that capability as they get very few inquires for it.

Maybe posting this may cause more inquires?

[SV Enough]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

I have not mentioned to this point we are outfitting to go to Europe and are fitting a Charles Industries 7.5 KVA step down transformer. Webasto literature does not state the 115 v unit is 50/60 Hz capable however I have gotten repeated assurances, to their surprise, that they have tested it and it does and will cover it under warranty if operated as such. They say they don't market as having that capability as they get very few inquires for it.

Maybe posting this may cause more inquires?

Oh BTW this is a direct retrofit for the Dometics VDT line which is no longer in production. :-)

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

I have not mentioned to this point we are outfitting to go to Europe and are fitting a Charles Industries 7.5 KVA step down transformer. Webasto literature does not state the 115 v unit is 50/60 Hz capable however I have gotten repeated assurances, to their surprise, that they have tested it and it does and will cover it under warranty if operated as such. They say they don't market as having that capability as they get very few inquires for it.

Maybe posting this may cause more inquires?

Very interested, for the same reason. As you mentioned, their web site doesn't seem to indicate the 115V units work on 50 and 60 Hz.

You say you asked them and they confirmed this but were surprised? I'm confused. If they tested and knew the 115V units work on 50 and 60 Hz how could they be surprised?

[Outlaw7]

What Webasto fails to tell you is that it is not they that rates the units 50 or 60 hz but the compressor manufacturer. Just about all compressors will run on either. However a compressor running at 50Hz is about 20% less efficient. So your 16,00 BTU unit will only be 12,800 BTU.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Outlaw7

What Webasto fails to tell you is that it is not they that rates the units 50 or 60 hz but the compressor manufacturer. Just about all compressors will run on either. However a compressor running at 50Hz is about 20% less efficient. So your 16,00 BTU unit will only be 12,800 BTU.

I "think" (but I could be wrong) the bigger concern with 50 vs 60 Hz is more the electronics and control module than the compressor.

[Outlaw7]

Not generally, most proprietary PC board control circuits like Webasto's are converted to low voltage and really don't care. However motors of which the compressor is one, run slower on 50hz hence the downgrading of BTU's. The only company I know of which uses off the shelf components for their control circuit is Flagship Marine and they could care less of 50Hz.

[captstu]

Electronics runs, internally, on regulated 5 volts or some alternate voltage(s), but all regulated internally and derived from the line voltage. Electronic regulators designed to run on 60 Hz may not operate correctly on 50 Hz - depending on the design decisions made by the developer.

For example, my inverter (3 kw) was designed for 60 Hz and didn't work well (overheating and eventual failure) when run on 50 Hz.

Motors generally used in air conditioners were, until recently, designed to derive their speed - and thus their output - from the Hz they were given. Typically a 60 Hz unit runs at 1800 rpm or sometimes 3600 rpm. While this unit may run OK on 50 Hz, it will, as noted above, put out about 20% less cooling.

Efficiency isn't quite the issue - since if properly designed, a 60 Hz unit running on 50 Hz may draw 20% less power - and thus preserve the same efficiency. The problem is some units are design to expect a certain speed and when operated at 50 Hz they will turn slower - and may overheat while trying ever harder to go at the right speed.

There is an inexpensive solution.

Run everything on the boat on one or more inverters - properly wired, an air conditioner will easily start and run on a 3 kW inverter - mine did for years. When in a "foreign" country - that is a 50 Hz country if you are designed for 60 Hz, connect a battery charger - it not need be a marine charger - to the local mains. Set it to put out about 13 volts and float your batteries.

Your inverter will deliver clean, perfect electricity for everything you need. If you have 2 air conditioners, it is less expensive to isolate one on a dedicated inverter and let the other float the boat.

I ran a washer/dryer, an A/C and the usual household stuff this way - backed by about 900 Ah of golf cart batteries.

Off the grid, I charged up the bank and ran the a/c overnight on the batteries.

[SV Enough]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Very interested, for the same reason. As you mentioned, their web site doesn't seem to indicate the 115V units work on 50 and 60 Hz.

You say you asked them and they confirmed this but were surprised? I'm confused. If they tested and knew the 115V units work on 50 and 60 Hz how could they be surprised?

They did the test then based on the assumption that most 50 Hz locations are 230 or there abouts no one would want 120v 50Hz so why mention it. Ignoring an entire market segment.

[SV Enough]

Originally Posted by Outlaw7

What Webasto fails to tell you is that it is not they that rates the units 50 or 60 hz but the compressor manufacturer. Just about all compressors will run on either. However a compressor running at 50Hz is about 20% less efficient. So your 16,00 BTU unit will only be 12,800 BTU.

When I contacted them to confirm or deny 115 50 Hz they were VERY up front about the reduced capacity at 50HZ.

[SV Enough]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I "think" (but I could be wrong) the bigger concern with 50 vs 60 Hz is more the electronics and control module than the compressor.

Actually the concern is overheating and burning up the compressor on 50 Hz. They say they did the testing and although there is reduced BTU capacity, which I expected and feel is acceptable, operating performance or durability was not compromised such that they would not back it with their warranty when operated at 50 Hz.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

They say they did the testing and although there is reduced BTU capacity, which I expected and feel is acceptable, operating performance or durability was not compromised such that they would not back it with their warranty when operated at 50 Hz.

Sorry, I don't understand what that means. Is it covered by warranty or not at 50hz?

[SV Enough]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Sorry, I don't understand what that means. Is it covered by warranty or not at 50hz?

The warranty is valid if operated at 50 Hz

[SV Enough]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I "think" (but I could be wrong) the bigger concern with 50 vs 60 Hz is more the electronics and control module than the compressor.

And you would be right for some situations. It depends on the design. For instance Splendede washing machine will flat out tell you will hose the electronics in their newer models if you run on 50 Hz. Didn't get into the details with them just took it as read. So our wash cycle will run off the 60 Hz inverter and hang dry.