Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-12-2021, 18:15   #1
Junior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2017
Location: canterbury new zealand
Boat: carpenter 29
Posts: 3
12 v or invertor?

We are having issues with our engine driven compressor fridge. In the interim we are using an engel 40 l fridge freezer that can run on 12v or mains.
My question is are we better to run the engel on 12v through the cigarette lighter connection or on mains power through our inverter? Both are run off a 105 amp/r deep cycle battery.
Hope all this makes sense!
probb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2021, 18:19   #2
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Croatia
Boat: bavaria 38
Posts: 894
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by probb View Post
We are having issues with our engine driven compressor fridge. In the interim we are using an engel 40 l fridge freezer that can run on 12v or mains.
My question is are we better to run the engel on 12v through the cigarette lighter connection or on mains power through our invertor? Both are run off a 105 amp/r deep cycle battery.
Hope all this makes sense!
Best way is follow manufacture engel frige operational manual.
ask here
https://www.engelaustralia.com.au/en...ridge-freezer/

But is logical use inverter 12v- 220(110 v) maybe 70% efficiency ,fridge is 12V and fridge convert 220(110v) to 12V again maybe 80-90% efficiency.

Logical use Inverter,why easy when can very complicate.
What you think name is cigarette lighter connection.what is purpose cigarette lighter connection. why is not cooled frige connection.

Cigaret lighter is usually under 100W but not continius use,and like on continius use finish in fire.
more is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2021, 23:14   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 3,949
Re: 12 v or invertor?

the 12v will be more efficent then the inverter. espeicly if nothing else needs the inverter. because the inverter can be shut off when not used. it draws power just being on.
smac999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-12-2021, 03:27   #4
Registered User
 
dsteinfeld's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Westport, MA
Boat: Cooper 416
Posts: 84
Re: 12 v or invertor?

If you believe the manufacturer’s specifications (manual here (https://www.tentworld.com.au/assets/...s/MT-V60FC.pdf) then based on power consumption 12v is the way to go. On 12v, wattage is 12v x 3.1a= 37w, while on 220v (best AC case) it’s 220v x 0.42=92va. So DC wins without even considering power factor and inverter efficiency.
__________________
Doug
dsteinfeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-12-2021, 13:07   #5
Junior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2017
Location: canterbury new zealand
Boat: carpenter 29
Posts: 3
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Cool. Thank you all.
probb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-12-2021, 20:15   #6
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C.
Boat: CS27
Posts: 2,782
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by more View Post

Cigaret lighter is usually under 100W but not continius use,and like on continius use finish in fire.
12 volts is definitely better than using an inverter.

But I wouldn't use the cigarette lighter. I would get the hardwire cord from Engel and wire it appropriately.
mitiempo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2021, 01:24   #7
Registered User
 
colinalleck's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odessey 45.2
Posts: 49
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Ditch the 12v and permanently connect via circuit breaker and appropriately sized wiring
Good luck
colinalleck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2021, 01:38   #8
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Vagabond 47
Posts: 856
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colinalleck View Post
Ditch the 12v and permanently connect via circuit breaker and appropriately sized wiring
Good luck

Oh yes, just to find out that your inverter is a non sine wave and it won't work? Inverter? I have 2 on board. One 360W and one 1,5kW but I would never run a device on AC when 12VDC is possible. A usual fridge uses 2Ah that makes around 50Ah a day. So why skip the 10-20% loss through the inverter?


I switch my inverter to on when I use the microwave or my line cutter or... And immediadly off when it is done.
moseriw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2021, 02:46   #9
Registered User
 
Uncle Bob's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 2,818
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colinalleck View Post
Ditch the 12v and permanently connect via circuit breaker and appropriately sized wiring
Good luck
I'm guessing that you mean ditch the 12 volt flylead and hardwire with more robust wiring from the 12 volt supply. I would go one step further and include an anderson plug in the line so removal is relatively easy should the need arise.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.

Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
Uncle Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2021, 13:57   #10
Registered User
 
Boatyarddog's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Boat: 1979 Mariner Ketch 32-Hull 202
Posts: 1,924
Images: 2
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moseriw View Post
Oh yes, just to find out that your inverter is a non sine wave and it won't work? Inverter? I have 2 on board. One 360W and one 1,5kW but I would never run a device on AC when 12VDC is possible. A usual fridge uses 2Ah that makes around 50Ah a day. So why skip the 10-20% loss through the inverter?


I switch my inverter to on when I use the microwave or my line cutter or... And immediadly off when it is done.
I believe all inverters are sine wave, some modified, some true. It's not a problem usually. Electronics need a Cleaner source of power.

A cooling unit need not be compressor run, some use thermal convection, using a heat source to run it as in a propane fridge.

Most types that don't use propane use a heat pile. The 12 vt. Heater used in portable coolers run on the principal that the food just needs a constant temp, and is all ready cooled. Not very good at removing heat, really just keep the food at lower temps.
Compressor run requires more energy, our Hailer refridgerator is just a room fridge, and works fine with a non true sinewave 1000watt inverter. 110 vt.

Charging system on engine keeps up with it under power.
We unplug it when we don't use the engine, keeps cool well.
Or run a 1000watt Honda genset if we want the battery topped up.
Boatyarddog
Boatyarddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2021, 17:01   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
MGRodems's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Barcelona, NY (Lake Erie)
Boat: Irwin 43 MkIII
Posts: 59
Re: 12 v or invertor?

While the 12v direct wired solution makes the most sense for efficient power consumption, our new fridge freezer that was designed to run on either, had difficulty running off 12 volts without shutting itself down (presumably to protect the batteries) even though the 400 AH battery bank was at 100%. It ran fine through the inverter for 50 straight days off grid.

Just a consideration in case you run into the same problem.
__________________
- Mike
MGRodems is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2022, 10:26   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Beaufort, NC, USA
Boat: Ta Chiao 56
Posts: 748
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGRodems View Post
While the 12v direct wired solution makes the most sense for efficient power consumption, our new fridge freezer that was designed to run on either, had difficulty running off 12 volts without shutting itself down (presumably to protect the batteries) even though the 400 AH battery bank was at 100%. It ran fine through the inverter for 50 straight days off grid.

Just a consideration in case you run into the same problem.
If the unit is shutting off on low voltage protection, and your battery bank is even close to full, the likely cause is undersized wiring. Consult the Circuit Wizard on Blue Sea Systems site. Remember that your circuit length is the total length of both conductors, and use the 3% allowable voltage drop option.
Brewgyver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2022, 11:03   #13
Registered User
 
Boatyarddog's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Boat: 1979 Mariner Ketch 32-Hull 202
Posts: 1,924
Images: 2
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGRodems View Post
While the 12v direct wired solution makes the most sense for efficient power consumption, our new fridge freezer that was designed to run on either, had difficulty running off 12 volts without shutting itself down (presumably to protect the batteries) even though the 400 AH battery bank was at 100%. It ran fine through the inverter for 50 straight days off grid.

Just a consideration in case you run into the same problem.
Hard to believe this statement of 50 days, on an inverter run fridge/freezer.

Without any other power. With a 400 amp hr. battery, on inverter pwr.
Even if you never opened it, it cant add up in power use.
It would be 110vts. If it needs a inverter to run.

What's you brand name of cooler, is it stand alone? and inverter?
Boatyarddog
Boatyarddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2022, 18:50   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area (Boat Sold)
Boat: Former owner of a Valiant V40
Posts: 987
Re: 12 v or invertor?

We ran our Engel for years on 12v while on the boat or in the car. Now, it runs on 120v 'cause we are at home. The refer is quite happy either way. So, IMHO, operating on 12v directly "likely" uses fewer amps than 120v/inverter, so go 12v.

Note "Likely" ... You can certainly test this with care and a decent ammeter. Should it turns out that your Engel uses more actual electrical power from 12v as opposed to 120v/inverter (for very weird reasons, as I believe internally it rectifies 120VAC to 12VDC) then your results may vary.
jamhass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2022, 18:57   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area (Boat Sold)
Boat: Former owner of a Valiant V40
Posts: 987
Re: 12 v or invertor?

Probb:

By the way, we purchased our Engel when our engine-driven refer started to go wonky also. Got us by for a couple more years...

In retrospect, I really wish we had immediately (if not 3 years sooner) replaced the engine driven system with a modern 12v system. Cannot tell you how many engine hours would have been saved, especially as we had (just) enough solar already.
jamhass is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Charger or charger/invertor? Sid at SailAway Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 3 26-11-2012 08:55
Running a Invertor Welder of an Invertor, Anyone Done It? resilientg Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 14 18-10-2012 04:53
Invertor Generator and 30amp Charger Hatch Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 3 15-07-2012 16:54
CHANGING A 220V INVERTOR TO A 110V shaun1 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 12-06-2012 23:59
Charger/invertor question Dockhead Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 3 16-07-2009 11:41

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:35.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.