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Old 03-12-2019, 03:29   #76
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

The 120v (110v) systems have two active phases either side of neutral. 180 degrees out of phase. This means you go one phase to neutral, you get 120v. You go one active phase to other active phase, you get 240v. Thats how America powers its lights (120v) and fridges (240v).

My wife bought an Indian food processor in Singapore. Nominal Voltage 220v. Here in Melbourne Australia we get typically 245v. I guess it is a legacy of power production assets. Using the processor here, with a 10% overvoltage, blew it up. Low tolerance in the production I guess!

Summary message. If you don’t have an appliance or system that matches the supply where you are, you run the risk of trouble. Just fitting an appropriate plug, or plug adaptor, may not work!

And 50hz / 60hz, as a previous poster noted, affects devices which are time dependant like clocks, some TVs etc.

Beware the shocking truth! Electricity takes no prisoners.
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:33   #77
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

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Originally Posted by captainwd40 View Post
My 2 cents ...... from an electrical engineer stand point.

220 volts is better than 110 volts because it only requires half the amps which is important when it comes to wiring and batteries.

Cheers!
This is true...if you are building the entire system power plant to end use device from scratch...and hence why those areas of the world late to the party went 220/240v.

Once you have many many billions in an existing grid designed around 110/120v, along with houses, offices, appliances etc......it becomes a pretty expensive operation to convert it.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:52   #78
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post
The current Shuko connectors generally also have the earth pin
No. There is no "earth pin" on a Schuko.

https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Schuko1.html

You are probably confusing it with a french socket, or the hybrid CEE7/7 that fits both.

https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/EFhybrid.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post
There is then no chance of reversing active with neutral, but there are plenty of two-pin connectors for lamps etc,
There is NO polarity in either Schuko or the CEE7/16 "Europlug", the 2 most used connectors in Europe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post
and it's a lottery whether you get active on the centre of the lamp socket or the outside.
Doesn't matter. Lamp socket threads hasn't been connected to either live or neutral since the 1930s, they wouldn't pass electrical safety test.

/M
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:57   #79
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Thanks! If I am reading this correctly, dependent on the way older connectors were inserted you don't know what wire is hot?

See my previous post. Has nothing to do with "older". Everything has to accept arbitrary polarity.

/M
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:00   #80
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

Power grids are not developed on anything like 120/240 or whatever. It is knocked down from transmission voltages at a transformer station and then again at a transformer close to the delivery point.
One post sounded like it. At 120/240 we may as well go back and attempt DC transmission.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:31   #81
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

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Originally Posted by captainwd40 View Post
My 2 cents ...... from an electrical engineer stand point.

220 volts is better than 110 volts because it only requires half the amps which is important when it comes to wiring and batteries.

Cheers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
This is true...
It sounds only PARTIALLY true to me.
If we're talking about AC current with 220V vs 110V, the what do batteries have to do with this? Batteries will experience the same DC current no matter 110V or 220V when using an inverter of a fixed power rating (+/- a smidge for effeciency variations). Same for the charging side.
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Old 03-12-2019, 15:54   #82
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipraiser View Post
..........



Doesn't matter. Lamp socket threads hasn't been connected to either live or neutral since the 1930s, they wouldn't pass electrical safety test.

/M
Huh!
Exactly where does the current flow if not though the lamp socket thread??
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Old 03-12-2019, 16:27   #83
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

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Exactly where does the current flow if not though the lamp socket thread??
A safe lamp socket has a center connector and a separate side connector, which the bulb thread only touches once fully screwed in. THEN the current flows through that . The socket thread is then also powered (but no current flows through it) but as soon as you start to unscrew the bulb, it loses connectivity.

So, a socket without a bulb can NOT have the thread connected to either pole.

This also prevents the bulb thread from becoming powered while you are screwing it in.

Here is the standardized tool for testing that the thread is not energized before fully screwed in, an that the socket is high enough to cover the thread when screwed in.

https://www.elsakerhetsverket.se/con...02---kopia.jpg

(The product on the picture failed testing and was recalled from the market due to exactly this, https://www.elsakerhetsverket.se/pri...ran-konsument/)


Think about it, many modern sockets have plastic threads, how do you think they work...?


/M
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Old 03-12-2019, 16:39   #84
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

Thanks for the explanation Shipraiser. I see you have provided some EU links and note that Europe is streets ahead with such refinements.

Unfortunately not all the rest of the world is so keen to be as safety conscious, sadly there are many many many Edison Screw fittings in service don't meet the standards you have referenced.
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Old 03-12-2019, 16:56   #85
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

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Unfortunately not all the rest of the world is so keen to be as safety conscious, sadly there are many many many Edison Screw fittings in service don't meet the standards you have referenced.
True, but the point was that another user made it sound like Schuko and Europlugs were less safe that AU/NZ polarised connectors, by using this imagined lamp socket problem as a reason. It's simply not true, like I said, the product safety standard that sockets must allow any polarity came in late 1920:s or early 1930:s. So it is really a moot point.

A few Chinese crap products finds their way here and get recalled though.

Here is a very clear example (click on the picture). The separate connection vs the thread is clearly visible.

https://www.elbutik.se/product.html/...n--e27-m10x1-2

/M
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Old 03-12-2019, 20:29   #86
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

Not to detract from modern plugs and sockets I thought I would post this image of how we get in the (US) 240, 208, and 120 volts. Other transformer configurations exist.
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:42   #87
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

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Originally Posted by evm1024 View Post
Not to detract from modern plugs and sockets I thought I would post this image of how we get in the (US) 240, 208, and 120 volts. Other transformer configurations exist.
To compare that with EU: they have the 3-phase wiring only, without the 120/240 with 180 degree phase shift.

So a house gets 3 phases plus neutral. Between each phase and neutral is 230V and between two phases is 400V. These used to be 220V and 380V and yet everyone still calls it 380V.

Many houses only get a fuse in one of the phases.

There is no need for the 120/240 setup because the 230V provides enough power for up to a 3,600W appliance. Above that, 3-phase is used.
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Old 04-12-2019, 16:32   #88
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

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Many houses only get a fuse in one of the phases.
Only 1-bedroom apartments and special infrastructure loctations here in Scandinavia has had 1-phase meters and they are phased (!) out as well. New susbscriptions are all 3-phase, minumum 3x16A which is kind of overkill if you only want to power 1 light, or a small communications cabinet.

May be difference in continental Europe where gas stoves are more common though. I have 1-Phase 35A in France for example.

/M
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Old 04-12-2019, 22:04   #89
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipraiser View Post
Only 1-bedroom apartments and special infrastructure loctations here in Scandinavia has had 1-phase meters and they are phased (!) out as well. New susbscriptions are all 3-phase, minumum 3x16A which is kind of overkill if you only want to power 1 light, or a small communications cabinet.

May be difference in continental Europe where gas stoves are more common though. I have 1-Phase 35A in France for example.

/M
I think you are right and expect things to change everywhere as electric energy consumption will grow Not only stoves but also heating was gas in Holland but now everyone has induction and the government, after being sued for damage of homes due to gas mining, which they stopped, and not being allowed to buy a Russian gas by the USA, wants to force everyone to replace gas heating with electric powered heat pumps.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:20   #90
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Re: 110v 220v definitions WHY?

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I think you are right and expect things to change everywhere as electric energy consumption will grow Not only stoves but also heating was gas in Holland but now everyone has induction and the government, after being sued for damage of homes due to gas mining, which they stopped, and not being allowed to buy a Russian gas by the USA, wants to force everyone to replace gas heating with electric powered heat pumps.
Heat pumps are efficient but only with an ambient temp. of some place above freezing. That's all we have in coastal SC, US. with electric strip backup. I'm not sure about much farther north unless one is a water unit using ground water temp.. My son had one years ago but had, I believe, a calcification problem in the heat exchanger. I guess there ain't no free lunches.
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