450: Trysail and Heaving to

[Bean Counter]

I was looking for specific information or examples of those who have heaved to on L450 and what the best sail plan would be. We have a square top main with 3 reefs and a 100 sq ft ATN Storm Jib that goes up around the furled genoa, never used in anger but did some practice to get the settings right.

We plan to try it all at sea next time we are out in over 20Knots, but in the meantime some comments would be appreciated on:

1. No main up (rely on lazy bag for windage) + Storm Jib.
2. 3rd reef + storm jib
3 3rd reef only
4 no main and just storm jib

As an additional thought , I was wondering about using the storm jib as a trysail. I could bring the dyneema spinnaker halyard back behind the mast and tighten at mast base, then haul the storm jib hanked around the spi halyard up with the main halyard and attached the clew to the end of the boom or even the spinnaker sheet blocks. The storm jib may slide up inside the lazy jacks This would avoid clambering up the lower mast in a big sea..any way just a theory.

[Scottster]

My experience is on my 400S2 but it should relate.

My crew and I practice heaving to an inordinate amount. The reason is that my 90 year old dad sailed with us before his passing and needed help going to the washroom ( that was my job)
If I did not get the boat stopped and stable within 30 sec. he would have an accident. The clean up was also my job, so I either have to in 15 sec or was cleaning a 90 year old mans bottom.
Heaving to became a maximum of 15 sec. and we performed it dozens of times flawlessly. From 15 knots to our altimeter high of 42 knots.
Now I need to explain further that all of the sailing with my dad was in the Pacific Northwest and large swell was a non issue but at 42 knots our boat was quite in the water and getting my dad down the stairs to the head was no problem.
The point is practice, practice, practice.
Further I sometimes heave to for dinner on a crossing just for fun.
Cheers Scott

[Bean Counter]

Thanks, what sails did you have up at 42 knots when hove to?.

[Scottster]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

Thanks, what sails did you have up at 42 knots when hove to?.

I had one reef in both sails,
I find that having my jib with one reef places the sail ahead of the mast and eliminates chaff on the sail.
Once we are hove to I tie the wheel with a line that is a permanent fixture on my boat, the wheel brake if too,weak to hold the wheel.
40 + knots with a benign sea state is really not a big deal.
Cheers

[Emerald Sea]

We've hove-to three times in anger now with our 450 and a few times in practice. We were unable to get the boat to settle in with any part of the genoa sheeted hard to windward and main completely down - traditional method on a mono. What we found worked was, with genoa fully furled, using a reduced main sail sheeted to windward, helm to full leeward. You will have to play with how much canvas you have up until you get to 30-45 degrees to the wind. We find its the 3rd reef or less.

Never tried our ATN Storm Gib as a tri-sail but without it being secured in some way to the mast (cars) I would expect it would bellow right out given the length of the halyard to mast top. But, Im curious how you get along with that?

Keep us in touch!

There is more discussion in previous posts on this subject with the 450.

[Bean Counter]

Thanks Emerald Sea, good info.

[Factor]

Many - not all - cats heave too well by doing the following when reaching:
Traveller Out
Mainsheet On,
Furl Jib,
Helm Over.

What the above does is move the centre of effort aft into the main closer to the rudders. Thus when you tack she goes into irons.

Try it on your boat and see how it goes. Its easy to do and easy to undo.

[DavefromNZ]

As Emerald has said and in previous thread. We tried in 40 kts but flat Harbour sea state. Cannot have any jib as bow quickly points down wind. Main third reef and sheeted in hard to leeward. Helm to leeward. Yacht stable and settled about 40 deg to wind and drifted slowly side wards.

[Bean Counter]

Thanks Dave.

[Two Drifters]

Hi there, not a 450, bit close.

We have a 440 and regularly heave to. Usually to get a big fish in without dropping the sails.

We find that for simply stopping the boat nothing is better and whatever sail plan we have up for the wind conditions seems to work fine.

Process:

- Come up hard onto the wind so sails in tight and then tack.
- Do not tack the genoa, just leave the sheet where it is.
- Turn the wheel into the wind and lock it off using the wheel lock.
- Run the main sail all the way down the track away from the wind.

Job done, boat will sit there skidding sideways at about 2 knots dependent on wind.

Have done this in up to 30 knots, but not more, yet.

Obviously not so easy when you are heading downwind with a colored sail!!

PS it is also a brilliant tactic for MoB as it stops the boat very quickly and keeps you in close contact with the person in the water whilst you throw the MoB devices, sort out the sails, get the engines going etc...

[Bean Counter]

Thanks all, any one done it in over 50 knots in big seas (on a Lagoon 40ft - 50ft or similar).

[Two Drifters]

Nope not yet, 35 knots and 3 meter waves is probably the biggest we have done.

I am not sure that our 440 would like heaving to in 50+

Given the sea room we would probably opt for running down wind with minimal sail / bare pole if it got very windy and then use drogues, lines, chains etc... to slow the boat down.

Have run downwind in 50 and the boat handled well, but the auto pilot could not cope so it was a hand helm job.

[boatman61]

Did it for 18hrs in winds 40kts and gusting (L440).. lower reef failed at the leach when the webbing cut through.. block ripped off.. sea's were 5m or more and sorting the flapping sail up there was not fun.. those booms are impossible to control/keep safe and working near tiptoe is tricky.
If going for serious offshore/trans ocean stuff that block and webbing rig is in my opinion not that safe.. but that's just my opinion

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Did it for 18hrs in winds 40kts and gusting (L440).. lower reef failed at the leach when the webbing cut through.. block ripped off.. sea's were 5m or more and sorting the flapping sail up there was not fun.. those booms are impossible to control/keep safe and working near tiptoe is tricky.
If going for serious offshore/trans ocean stuff that block and webbing rig is in my opinion not that safe.. but that's just my opinion

3rd reef on leech of our L450 runs through a stainless cringle/eye with plenty of reinforcing, no webbing or ring.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

3rd reef on leech of our L450 runs through a stainless cringle/eye with plenty of reinforcing, no webbing or ring.

Glad to hear it..
This was an early model so they must have listened to feedback from owners.