450: Sliding door; what am I missing?

[Anjin]

After five months in the Bahamas, our sliding glass door on our Lagoon 450 is harder than ever to open/close. I know I need to repair/replace the runners (and maybe the track as well) but all of the online advice I'm reading starts with how to lift the door off the tracks and "remove it" - i.e. swing it around to get to the bottom. In the 450, the last foot or so of the door is between the freezer cabinet inside and the cockpit cabinet outside. Even if you can get the door off the tracks there is no way I can see to actually "remove it" to get to the runners on the bottom. The freezer cabinet is not easily moved out of the way - it is one piece with the electrical closet. Same for the cockpit cabinet that now houses an icemaker and second fridge.

I'm planning to try to disassemble the door in pieces - aluminum frame pieces, two sections of glass, all the rubber casing, etc just to get to the runners on the bottom. Has someone done this on a 450? Is there a better way?


What am I missing?

Thanks -

- Art

[Krabimike]

You should send a message to Steve on Emerald Sea. I know he has delt with his slider on his 450. Plus he is a wealth of knowledge with many other issues on the 450s. Also PaulinOz would probably know the answer. They are both active here on cruisers.

[tdetten]

Staff at TMM, in Tortola, recently replaced my rollers. In order to do it they had to remove the complete surface counter of the freezer/electrical panel cabinet. Then the freezer compartment had to be removed. The door would then slip out for runner replacement. You still have to somewhat disassemble the door to install the new rollers. It was a task. It took about 5 hours to complete.

Upon review of the old rollers they were not worn as much as clogged and corroded. If you can get some lubricant to them while still on the door you could save yourself tons of work.

Tim
S/V Pura Vida

[Anjin]

Tim,

Thanks for the reply. It confirms what I'm looking at - there is no magic solution.

I will try just disassembling the door in place. I'll remove the portside vertical frame element, remove the top frame element, and remove the top glass section. At that point I can continue to remove pieces or try tipping the remaining door back (top to starboard) to get to the runners.

If I'm successful, will post pictures. If not will post the bill to have someone come in and fix the mess I've made.

- Art

[Catopia]

Originally Posted by Anjin

Tim,



Thanks for the reply. It confirms what I'm looking at - there is no magic solution.



I will try just disassembling the door in place. I'll remove the portside vertical frame element, remove the top frame element, and remove the top glass section. At that point I can continue to remove pieces or try tipping the remaining door back (top to starboard) to get to the runners.



If I'm successful, will post pictures. If not will post the bill to have someone come in and fix the mess I've made.



- Art

Were you successful with this project?

We have issues with our sliding door as well and a solution for the removal problem would be most welcome.

Thanks

[Anjin]

Yes, I was successful. I did it the way I described in my earlier message - remove the portside vertical frame element, remove the top frame element, and remove the top glass section. I was then able to tip the door back and remove the failed runners.

I was not able to get replacement runners; theoretically someone in France is "looking into it" but the Georgia based Beneteau parts service (normally very helpful) was unable to identify them even with the photos I sent. I have hull number 2 so the door styles/model/manufacturer may have changed.

Instead I adapted a $30 repair kit from slide-ezzz.com, a kit designed for patio doors that bypasses the whole runner-on-rail system with a pair of plastic track inserts and a pair of teflon runners mounted on the ends of the door. There are challenges to adapting this kit but I think I have most of the bugs worked out. The door does slide easily now but I just completed the installation so I don't know how it will hold up and thus hesitate to recommend it.

I had also looked into adapting runners built for other doors. Most are the same width but the available runners typically use larger (1 1/4") wheels instead of the 3/4" wheels in my runners.

The hard part for me was getting access to the runners and to the whole track so here's a few tips on that.

Disassembling the door starts with the portside vertical frame element. There are three screws that hold it in place and they are easy to get to and should be easy to remove. The gasketing that holds the glass in place will make it harder to remove the frame element so I removed it along that edge. That was easy on my boat, starting at the top corner with a small screwdriver and levering out the gasket material until there is enough to pull. On my boat the gasket material starts and ends at that corner but is one piece as it wraps around the four edges of glass. I pulled out just that edge and let it dangle. Then it's just a matter of tapping to overcome corrosion or other resistance and the edge will pull free.

To remove the top element you have to first remove the top screw on the starboard vertical frame piece. Then just lift it off while overcoming the resistance of the gasket on the top edge of the glass.

To remove the top glass I was able to wedge successively larger screwdrivers under the exposed bottom corner and gradually work it free from the gasket along the bottom and the starboard edge. On my boat, the vertical parts of gasket were in two pieces, inside and outside, while the horizontal parts wrapped around the glass. The glass is HEAVY; set it aside carefully.

At that point, the "door" is just the starboard vertical frame piece, the bottom and middle horizontal piece and the bottom piece of glass. It can be slid to port and tipped "back" to expose the runners. Now you can see if the runners are repairable (mine were not) and decide on a plan of action.

I will add that the door can also be removed at that point but it isn't obvious how - and I'm not sure I can describe it well. With the door now lying on it's "back", you lift the door tipping the glass down a bit and with some careful maneuvering you swing the free end of the vertical frame inside over the top of the cabinet and tilt the top of the glass inside and just gradually work the whole thing over the cabinet and inside the salon. It doesn't look like it will work and the measurements would indicate that it won't but tilting and maneuvering carefully in three dimensions will allow it to work. Or at least it did on my boat.

Will add some pictures of my repair installation as soon as I gain some confidence in it.

Cheers -

- Art

[Catopia]

Originally Posted by Anjin

Yes, I was successful. I did it the way I described in my earlier message - remove the portside vertical frame element, remove the top frame element, and remove the top glass section. I was then able to tip the door back and remove the failed runners.

I was not able to get replacement runners; theoretically someone in France is "looking into it" but the Georgia based Beneteau parts service (normally very helpful) was unable to identify them even with the photos I sent. I have hull number 2 so the door styles/model/manufacturer may have changed.

Instead I adapted a $30 repair kit from slide-ezzz.com, a kit designed for patio doors that bypasses the whole runner-on-rail system with a pair of plastic track inserts and a pair of teflon runners mounted on the ends of the door. There are challenges to adapting this kit but I think I have most of the bugs worked out. The door does slide easily now but I just completed the installation so I don't know how it will hold up and thus hesitate to recommend it.

I had also looked into adapting runners built for other doors. Most are the same width but the available runners typically use larger (1 1/4") wheels instead of the 3/4" wheels in my runners.

The hard part for me was getting access to the runners and to the whole track so here's a few tips on that.

Disassembling the door starts with the portside vertical frame element. There are three screws that hold it in place and they are easy to get to and should be easy to remove. The gasketing that holds the glass in place will make it harder to remove the frame element so I removed it along that edge. That was easy on my boat, starting at the top corner with a small screwdriver and levering out the gasket material until there is enough to pull. On my boat the gasket material starts and ends at that corner but is one piece as it wraps around the four edges of glass. I pulled out just that edge and let it dangle. Then it's just a matter of tapping to overcome corrosion or other resistance and the edge will pull free.

To remove the top element you have to first remove the top screw on the starboard vertical frame piece. Then just lift it off while overcoming the resistance of the gasket on the top edge of the glass.

To remove the top glass I was able to wedge successively larger screwdrivers under the exposed bottom corner and gradually work it free from the gasket along the bottom and the starboard edge. On my boat, the vertical parts of gasket were in two pieces, inside and outside, while the horizontal parts wrapped around the glass. The glass is HEAVY; set it aside carefully.

At that point, the "door" is just the starboard vertical frame piece, the bottom and middle horizontal piece and the bottom piece of glass. It can be slid to port and tipped "back" to expose the runners. Now you can see if the runners are repairable (mine were not) and decide on a plan of action.

I will add that the door can also be removed at that point but it isn't obvious how - and I'm not sure I can describe it well. With the door now lying on it's "back", you lift the door tipping the glass down a bit and with some careful maneuvering you swing the free end of the vertical frame inside over the top of the cabinet and tilt the top of the glass inside and just gradually work the whole thing over the cabinet and inside the salon. It doesn't look like it will work and the measurements would indicate that it won't but tilting and maneuvering carefully in three dimensions will allow it to work. Or at least it did on my boat.

Will add some pictures of my repair installation as soon as I gain some confidence in it.

Cheers -

- Art

Thanks for the info.

[ggray]

I periodically spray the rollers with McLube using the little red tube.

Makes a big difference