450: New Lagoon 450F on order

[SANSTLMCO]

Just signed up for a 450F at the boat show">Annapolis boat show. Plan is to place it in charter with TMM in the BVIs. We were lucky enough to get a July 2018 build date. By the end of the show available slots for the 450 were all 2019.

We are still trying to decide between a three cabin versus four cabin configuration. While we love the three cabin, and have always chartered this version, the four cabin gives us more options when inviting friends to go along and greater income opportunity. On the other hand resale on the backend may be better with a three cabin.

To be expected, I have a number of questions as I work to finalize which options we want. Any and all input is welcome.

1. My wife loves the teak floors in the bathrooms, but I am concerned about how they will hold up over five years in charter service. Thoughts?

2. We are going with walnut interior color, which is standard for 2018. Love the look of it, but concerned that it might show nicks and scratches more so than the lighter interior. Does anyone have firsthand experience with the darker interior?

3. We like the PVC Snow White cushion option for both how it looks with the walnut interior and how much better we think it will hold up to wet suits and suntan lotion. Does anyone have this and do they like it? On the other hand, how well does the standard fabric option hold up?

4. Charter company is recommending against a square top mainsail... harder to raise without tangling in the lazy jack and topping lift lines. Yes, there are ways to deal with this, but most charterers aren’t going to know how and I probably don’t want them loosing up the leeward lazy jack line. How much am I giving up by not having the square top main sail?

5. New for 2018 is an Aluminum Canoe Boom option. What is this?

6. We want the additional fridge space in the cockpit, but I am not impressed with what Lagoon offers for $1028. Has anyone done something different?

7. New for 2018 is an Cockpit Ice Box 130L option. Trying to figure out if this is just same ice box located at the passthrough that was standard in previous years’ model. The dealer was unsure and suggested that it may include a cold plate, but I doubt it since the descriptor does not mention 12V or 120V. What would I be getting for $1553?

8. Probably not going to go with solar and instead let this be added when it comes out of charter. That being said, does anyone have recent experience with the flexible solar panels Lagoon installs? I’ve read where these “cook” and discolor the fiberglass underneath. I find it surprising that the factory would install something that ultimately damages the boat.

9. We really love the stainless steel fridge and freezer option but have been advised against it. We are told no unit will hold up for five years, and these units will be harder and more expensive to replace in 3-4 years. Does anyone have experience with these specific units and how they hold up over time? BTW, really wish Lagoon would install fridge/freezer drawers. It was a major plus with other models we looked at.

10. Any advice on factory stools versus after market teak chairs? Don’t want to spend $550 on something that isn’t comfortable. Only concern about chairs is where do we store them.

11. If we go with the four cabin version, is there access to the starboard bow compartment berth similar to the port bow compartment berth (if we select these options)?

12. How tough/strong is the saloon table when used as a berth? Not sure if we want to include it so there is more sleeping capacity, or are we better off not since the table might/would get damaged when being used by charterers.

13. Saloon and cabin fan option is now $1068... seriously? Have they upgraded to something better than the cheap fans that every sailboat seems to use?

Long list I know, but like everyone else just want to get it right (or as right as one can when buying a boat). Any other advice/thoughts are welcome.

[Catapault]

I didn't buy new, but here are some thoughts.

One big question which may affect some of these answers.

What are YOU planning to do with the boat after (or during) charter. If it wil be for your own cruising after, that gives one set of answers, if its for charter than sale, a different set I think.

(Skipped several I have no info on)

1. I'd think the teak will hold up better (Just opinion, no facts), and personally, we LOVE the teak in cockpit and owners bathroom.

3. IMO, white anything fabric = BAD on a boat. It will grey and show every mark / stain fast. We have white /cream internal cushions and they are being replaced for sure.

4. They are probably correct. It does seem to catch a bit, but I wouldn't of thought it was a big deal. (I am going to run the lazy jacks back to the helm shortly though, as per PaulinOz setup).

9. I agree !!!. I'm about a hairs breath away from fitting a drawer fridge to our 450F. Going with the same one found in the Hellia 44. Gets quoted in a couple days to see if its possible / practical, can advise.

11. Yes. Though If you ever plan for the boat to become 'yours', go for 3 cabin. We looked long and hard at this, and after first season of cruising, I'm So glad we went 3 cabin. If it is for charter only, harder call.

13. Still Hella fans I think. Problem with not doing it, is they don't even put in the wiring to the points, so its tough to change them all later for something better (like Caframo).

Not sure this helps, but there you go !

Regards

Mark.
L450F, S/V Gumtrees - Aegean Sea.

[Peace Out]

Congratulations on your new purchase. Our new 2018 L450F (s/v Peace Out) actually just arrived last week in Tortola to the Catco base and will also be in charter there. We have been chartering them for years but this is our first boat purchase and we can't wait to get down there next month for our first sail on her. As a piece of unsolicited advice, I would highly recommend visiting the factory if you can fit that into your schedule. Even if you don't do the visit before you order all of the options, actually seeing the manufacturing process from start to finish gives you a fabulous perspective on your new boat. Lastly, if it is possible to go on even a portion of the delivery trip I would say make every effort to do so. I joined the crew on the leg from Cascais, Portugal to the Canary Islands and it was a great opportunity to become acquainted with many aspects the boat under the watchful eye of the delivery captain.

1. I can't attest to durability of the teak in the heads but we too went with the teak. My sense is that it is on the interior of the boat and that it will likely be highly durable.


2. Once again, we can't yet attest to how it will hold up over time but we also went with the new color for the interior as it looked a bit more current in terms of style.

3. On the recommendation from Catco, we went with the white PVC cushions you are describing as those do in fact hold up well in charter. Several of the boats that Catco uses in Tortola have that fabric on the salon cushions and it has proven to be durable. We will likely change it out after she is out of charter.

4. We took the same advice on not getting the square top sail while in charter.

6. As to the cockpit fridge, we actually did elect to go with that option as it has proven to be pretty functional on the boats we have chartered in the past.

7. The new cooler option in the passthrough is upgraded to include an electric cold plate that is wired into the boat. We did get this option but have not yet used it as we didn't use it during the portion of the delivery trip that i was on. I asked the captain about it and he said that they tried it on the early part of the charter and it did in fact work well. I guess we will find out in November when we are on her for the fist time.

8. We did not take the solar option as we didn't want it while she was in charter and the price / technology ratio for solar will only improve over the next several years. We will add it after her charter life.

9. We too would like the fridge / freezer drawer option but did in fact elect to go with the stainless f/f on the interior. They have remained in good shape on all of the boats we have chartered so I don't anticipate problems.

10. We went with the stools as they slide under the table and do offer a bit of extra storage.

11. We have the four cabin version of the L450F and elected to have both forepeaks outfitted as berths. When you make that election, they actually install a porthole that can be opened from inside the forepeak (in both hulls) allowing access from the forward cabin. There are mirrors in the forward cabin that lift and enable you to get into the forward compartment / berth. Now that she is in the BVI, we are going to have Catco run air conditioning from the forward cabins into the forepeak berth so that they can be cooled. We are also going to have them install a hydraulic support arm so that the mirror can remain raised when we are at anchor. This setup will help with young grandchildren having a safe yet comfortable place to sleep.

12. We did elect to get the option allowing the salon table to convert to a bed. We have used that occasionally while on charter and found it useful and stable.

13. Seemingly same cheap fans but yes we got those too.

Hope that this helps!

Colt

Peace Out

[SANSTLMCO]

Peace Out, all great information. Thanks for the detailed response. Let me know as you get to know your boat if there is anything you wish you had done different.

[slimnrp]

Hi, congratulations!

We are in La Roche Sur Yon this very evening, tomorrow we will be touring the factory and as you would expect we are very excited!

Our 450f, (handover late November 2017), is coming with Alpi Walnut and we were very pleased to get this as the vanilla no cost option, as we prefer the darker finish.

Our previous, (motor boat) had this darker finish and we preferred it to the blonde or light Alpi alternatives - it feels more contemporary to us but of course that’s subjective and today’s contemporary is tomorrow’s dated

So, regarding scratches and dinks, Alpi marks very easily and you should be careful regarding scratching it or more likely dropping things on it, because it dents easily.

The good news is that you can repair it very easily and in fact my wife has become a bit of an expert. You definitely need something like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Amtech-Lami...d=401280974995

To keep on top of things, it requires some patience but if you want to keep the boat looking great it really does the job. There are plenty of YouTube tutorials and most scratches and dents can be dealt with very well.

Cant help much with the other questions other than perhaps the fridges, the cabinet doors on our two previous boats needed re fixing or re setting very often and in one case the wood failed and had to be replaced, the cabinets struggle with the weight and use of the fridge doors - we’ve ordered the ss for this reason....

Good luck and see you on the water!

NP

[BobScaggs]

We ordered a new 450F at the Annapolis Boat Show as well. We really went with the intention of ordering an FP Helia but as we looked at the 450F we fell in love all over again!!! I'll be following this thread, I had a couple of similar questions to yours and am seeing the answers come in.

Our boat will be going into charter in Puerto Rico for a few years. We fully intend to visit the factory next year as well, probably around June.

We ordered the four cabin and are having the small berths fitted as we expect grand children to be visiting the boat at some point in the future (assuming we get some). I saw where someone was plumbing A/C vents up there and I may look at that as well.

[SANSTLMCO]

Slimnrp,

Since you are at the factory today, can you ask about the cockpit ice box option. I am trying understand what exactly it entails. Based upon information from Peace Out they have added an electric cold plate to the ice box located at the pass through between the cockpit and the saloon. Is it 12v or 120v? Is it refrigeration only, or can it turned down low enough so it can be a freezer? Does it significantly reduce the size of the ice box?

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, SANSTLMCO, & Peace Out, & BobScaggs.

[Sapperdeflap]

Also curious about the ice box.
If the option is not chosen, do you still get an isolated box, just without heat exchanger, or does the entire box disappear? Will it then result in more storage space?

[Sapperdeflap]

5. The aluminium Y boom canoe does not make the lazy bag (and jack lines) obsolete. It's only a bit wider surface for your sail to drop upon. My dealer called it a fashion novelty. I was hoping on rigid Y boom like the 52 has, but my dealer told me it's nowhere that practical.

For reference, the 52-option:

[slimnrp]

Originally Posted by SANSTLMCO

Slimnrp,

Since you are at the factory today, can you ask about the cockpit ice box option. I am trying understand what exactly it entails. Based upon information from Peace Out they have added an electric cold plate to the ice box located at the pass through between the cockpit and the saloon. Is it 12v or 120v? Is it refrigeration only, or can it turned down low enough so it can be a freezer? Does it significantly reduce the size of the ice box?

Ok, as explained to us:

It’s a chiller box without a particularly positive seal lid. You either have it with or without the 12v chilled loop.

With the chilled loop you lose about an inch of volume around 3 sides of the box.

It won’t freeze and is designed to hold ice and tinnies but no more than that.

I hope that makes sense.

Having now seen the ss fridges I’m really pleased that we went for them, they seem like a very good quality.

The 2018 boat is refreshed with some nice small details and we were very taken by the Alpi Walnut - it looks very smart. New Lagoon 3D logo and decals also look nice.

I used a little stealth and have some footage of the visit, will get it up in the next few days and link.

Best regards

NP

[DavefromNZ]

4 cabins. Leisure Furl the best change we made in 5.5 years of improving and 10,000nm. A big safety plus

[PaulinOz]

Thoughts based on: our boat was 6 months old when purchased, spent 6 months fitting out, just had our 3rd anniversary full time live-aboard cruisers. I also own a L412 that has been in full time bare boat charter in Oz since 2011.

1.teak floors in the bathrooms: re-coated 3 years ago with water based domestic deck stain, still look like new. Aft Salon sees a lot more wear and tear and needs redoing every 18 months.

3. We like the PVC Snow White cushion : We have the white leather it is now a creamy beige colour. After 4 years of chartering you will need to re-new anyway.

4. Charter company is recommending against a square top mainsail...
L421 had to have a new mainsail in its 5th year of operation.
After 4 years of chartering you will need to re-new anyway then get what you want.

5. New for 2018 is an Aluminum Canoe Boom option. No experience

6. We want the additional fridge space in the cockpit, Get what charter company recommend for there use. You will be changing some if not all in 5 years, the marine stand alone fridges are barely fit for purpose if operated in the tropics. Thats a whole new can of worms.

7. New for 2018 is an Cockpit Ice Box 130L option. No experience

8. Probably not going to go with solar and instead let this be added when it comes out of charter. Go big, very big 2 to 3 kW after charter.

10. Any advice on factory stools versus after market teak chairs? Don’t want to spend $550 on something that isn’t comfortable. Only concern about chairs is where do we store them. They are heavy, not comfortable to sit on to eat, at nav station or at computer desk. For $550 you can buy 4 folding teak chairs. We have two teak folders thety live in forward Port storage when not in use.

11. If we go with the four cabin version, is there access to the starboard bow compartment berth similar to the port bow compartment berth (if we select these options)? No experience

12. How tough/strong is the saloon table when used as a berth? Not sure if we want to include it so there is more sleeping capacity, or are we better off not since the table might/would get damaged when being used by charterers. More cushions you need to store when not in use

13. Saloon and cabin fan option is now $1068... seriously? Have they upgraded to something better than the cheap fans that every sailboat seems to use? Absolute rubbish as said before swap and fit Caframo Sirocco 2 once it is out of charter. Let lagoon fit wiring and oem fans to save you the effort down the track.