400: Love my Lagoon!

[Scottster]

Jeff came down and we chatted, thanks for the Bon Voyage, we have no end date just a start date and that is July 23, 2016
The countdown is on, hello world!


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[mikall63]

That's awesome - sorry we didn't get up to Sydney to meet you before your big send off. We are on about a 3 year plan ourselves, maybe meet up with you down in the S. Pacific somewhere in a few years.

[katsumi]

Congratulations Juga, we are still preparing for our world tour, no start date yet. But enjoying the preparation stage. We are still very happy with our boat.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by jugga

Me and my girl just purchased a 2014 Lagoon 400S2, and are planning a trip around the world with our two young boys. It's a dream come true, we still can't believe that we are actually living on our catamaran now ... it's like we'll wake up and we'll have to give it back !
We just joined this forum as well, so HELLO EVERYBODY !!!

Welcome, and don't give the boat back! Stay in touch via the forum and say Hi if you gravitate Down Under. Safe and enjoyable cruising.

[Quarter]

My wife and I just finalized the sale of our Jeanneau 42DS and closed the deal on our Lagoon 400 S2, so we can finally say that, "We love our Lagoon!"

We just completed our delivery trip from Pittwater, NSW to Gold Coast, QLD where she will go on the hard for a week of antifoul, service work and a few upgrades, primarily LiFePO4 battery system and solar panels, then on to her new home in Brisbane.

The delivery trip was a great experience - 390 nm over 57 hours averaging 6.8 kn with winds from 0 to 40 kn, seas from dead flat to 3-4m. We picked a good weather window with 10 - 25 kn wind and 1.5 to 3 m swell for a 4 day window, at least in theory. On the first night we saw winds build over 4 hours from 15 to 40kn, confused seas, and large swell SE to 4m. Quite frankly, these were conditions that would have been teeth-gritting, white-knuckle, smelly-shorts sailing on our much loved mono. On our Lagoon, we never once felt like the boat, or us, couldn't take it. My wife, sailing solo shifts at night for the first time, said that the 2m freeboard, sitting high at the helm and stability of the boat gave her confidence in some of the challenging conditions we faced. While others might not think the conditions we saw were all that tough, they were plenty tough for us, and our Lagoon gave us plenty of reasons to trust her.
It wasn't all bad - we saw more pods of humpback whales than we could count, and a few way too close to the boat for comfort. A pod of dolphins for 10 minutes in, and even a 1 meter shark, but couldn't tell exactly what. We had plenty of hours of sweet broad reach sailing at 15-25kn, and some motor sailing when there was low wind and surfed at 12-13 knots.

Definitely love our Lagoon.

[tuskie]

Great that you had a very positive first coastal passage. The first of many more wonderful trips. Good luck with your preparations and upgrades. Cheers.

[peterp]

Originally Posted by Quarter

My wife and I just finalized the sale of our Jeanneau 42DS and closed the deal on our Lagoon 400 S2, so we can finally say that, "We love our Lagoon!"

We just completed our delivery trip from Pittwater, NSW to Gold Coast, QLD where she will go on the hard for a week of antifoul, service work and a few upgrades, primarily LiFePO4 battery system and solar panels, then on to her new home in Brisbane.
Congratulations on your new purchase, a wise choice without doubt, may you have many happy and safe trips, and welcome to the L400 club.

The delivery trip was a great experience - 390 nm over 57 hours averaging 6.8 kn with winds from 0 to 40 kn, seas from dead flat to 3-4m. We picked a good weather window with 10 - 25 kn wind and 1.5 to 3 m swell for a 4 day window, at least in theory. On the first night we saw winds build over 4 hours from 15 to 40kn, confused seas, and large swell SE to 4m. Quite frankly, these were conditions that would have been teeth-gritting, white-knuckle, smelly-shorts sailing on our much loved mono. On our Lagoon, we never once felt like the boat, or us, couldn't take it. My wife, sailing solo shifts at night for the first time, said that the 2m freeboard, sitting high at the helm and stability of the boat gave her confidence in some of the challenging conditions we faced. While others might not think the conditions we saw were all that tough, they were plenty tough for us, and our Lagoon gave us plenty of reasons to trust her.
It wasn't all bad - we saw more pods of humpback whales than we could count, and a few way too close to the boat for comfort. A pod of dolphins for 10 minutes in, and even a 1 meter shark, but couldn't tell exactly what. We had plenty of hours of sweet broad reach sailing at 15-25kn, and some motor sailing when there was low wind and surfed at 12-13 knots.

Definitely love our Lagoon.

Congratulations on your new purchase, a wise choice indeed, and welcome to the L400 club.

[jugga]

Hello Tuskie, how did Lagoon eventually deal with your claim for hull warranty ? cheers !

Originally Posted by tuskie

There doesn't seem to be any design or construction difference between the two models in this area. Of course, the S2s are younger, so any fresh water trapped in the nacelle area would not have been there for as long.

I don't think that this issue would be a deal breaker. The L400 is a great design and while some construction could have been better, it is still a very strong and durable boat. These abilities are well proven.

Knowing that the nacelle area is prone to water damage and rot, a competent surveyor should be easily able to determine if a particular vessel is effected. Water discolouration on the inside of the main bulkhead is easily seen. A moisture meter should readily determine if water ingress has occurred to the ply wood shelf under the water tanks. It may be the case that this particular vessel is dry in the nacelle area. Drilling drain holes, if not already done, should prevent future fresh water pooling and causing damage.

In a worst case scenario, the surveyor finds water damage in the nacelle area including parts of the main bulkhead. This is quite easily repaired. The front locker needs to be emptied, water tanks removed and then the rotten timber is cut out until only sound, dry material exists. The rebuilding of these structures should be of superior strength and rot resistance.

I've had shipwrights' opinions of this issue. Complete, professional repair quotes vary between AUD$5,000 - 8,000 and taking between 7 to 10 days. So, in the scheme of things, not a huge job.

I have claimed that Lagoon should cover the repair under hull warranty. We are still negotiating, but at the moment it seems that they are considering favourably. I'm not counting my chickens until the fat lady sings, to mix my metaphors. Will keep you posted.

So to recap; if you like the boat get it surveyed with special attention to this area. No damage, no problem. If damage is detected, the repair is fairly easy and can be negotiated between you, the owner and Lagoon. Either way don't let it stop you buying a L400.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by jugga

Hello Tuskie, how did Lagoon eventually deal with your claim for hull warranty ? cheers !

Yep, they came good with repair, meeting the full quoted price. Not bad, considering the boat is 5 years old. Unfortunately, the defect has been with the boat since manufacture, and the warranty process was a bit drawn out and painful. Still, as they say, "all's well that ends well".

[Scottster]

"MUSKOKA" is now in San Francisco on her way to Mexico.
The sail down from Canada was foggy and rough.
The L400 was very comfortable, we turned the heat on and sailed from inside most of the way, laundry, movies, great dinning it was all a reality.
"Love my Lagoon"



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[Karend007]

Originally Posted by tuskie

Yes, they are lip type oil seals. Two for each prop shaft, back to back. I took to the bearing shop an original Yanmar part #196440-02871 which was matched with TC12515 seals size 34 X 52 X 8 mm. The shop bloke checked the little tension spring of the Yanmar part with a magnet; it was non-stainless steel, so he replaced the steel springs for the outer seals with thin section O-rings, size 34.65 X 1.78mm. The replacement part should be superior and much cheaper to the original.

Thanks for the info. I am currently looking for aftermarket seals for my L420. I have one question, the original seals I have taken out only have a single lip (I think a SC type, not dual lip (TC type). Were yours dual lipped? Did your bearing shop specify a material?
Thanks for any info you can give me (manufacturer and their part number would be good). We are currently provisioning to prepare for the trip back to Aus from the US.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Karend007

Thanks for the info. I am currently looking for aftermarket seals for my L420. I have one question, the original seals I have taken out only have a single lip (I think a SC type, not dual lip (TC type). Were yours dual lipped? Did your bearing shop specify a material?
Thanks for any info you can give me (manufacturer and their part number would be good). We are currently provisioning to prepare for the trip back to Aus from the US.

Hi Karen and Matt,
The part numbers that I quoted were for fitment to Yanmar SD50 prop shafts. I assume that is what you have on your L420.

The original and replacement seals are of the dual lip design, as you speculated. Two of these seals are fitted, back to back, one keeping oil in and the other sealing water out. So, in theory, single lip seals of similiar dimensions should work fine. However, as I'm not an engineer, I went with the 2 lip Yanmar design specifications. Perhaps, given the "issues" experienced by users of SD50 and now SD60 sail drives, I give Yanmar engineering a bit too much credibility? ☺

The Yanmar original seals are of Viton (brown) material, which apparently is usually specified for its chemical resistance. Normal nitrile or neoprene seals (black) are fine for contact with oil and water, and are cheaper and long wearing. These are what we have fitted. I've never encountered Viton seals on prop shafts before. Perhaps some people navigate through seas of concentrated acid? I think any of these materials would be fine, and all will be similarly ruined by sand grit or fishing line ingress.

May your oils remain un- milky.

[arsenelupiga]

after thinking a lot, and having second thoughts about L 400 roof, got inspiration from new L 42 roof.

Feels really good sitting there, 5m2 DIY roof.

Our first bigger project. Hope I have not made any stupidity.

Behaved fine in up to 30 kn.

[arsenelupiga]

no i was not testing in on a mooring only. Very little air resistance, so I expect < 0.1 kn loss of speed in worst case scenario. Boom - no issues. I can stand without touching - 195cm tall. Added about 7 places where one can grab for stability. Still to do part under, but not a priority.

[Karend007]

Originally Posted by tuskie

Hi Karen and Matt,
The part numbers that I quoted were for fitment to Yanmar SD50 prop shafts. I assume that is what you have on your L420.

The original and replacement seals are of the dual lip design, as you speculated. Two of these seals are fitted, back to back, one keeping oil in and the other sealing water out. So, in theory, single lip seals of similiar dimensions should work fine. However, as I'm not an engineer, I went with the 2 lip Yanmar design specifications. Perhaps, given the "issues" experienced by users of SD50 and now SD60 sail drives, I give Yanmar engineering a bit too much credibility? ☺

The Yanmar original seals are of Viton (brown) material, which apparently is usually specified for its chemical resistance. Normal nitrile or neoprene seals (black) are fine for contact with oil and water, and are cheaper and long wearing. These are what we have fitted. I've never encountered Viton seals on prop shafts before. Perhaps some people navigate through seas of concentrated acid? I think any of these materials would be fine, and all will be similarly ruined by sand grit or fishing line ingress.

May your oils remain un- milky.

Well that is interesting... My original Yanmar supplied seals with the same part number 196449-02871 are black (apart from the rust marks from that non stainless spring corroding) and single lip... One of these did fail on me coming up through Cuba this year (milky oil) with no evidence of fishing lines after only 12 months with very little work on them and I don't think the second lip would have done much for me but maybe.

Btw the second lip is a dust seal and given it is facing inward, I am not sure the purpose ...

I like the idea of the o-ring instead on the outer seal and will be talking to the shop here about it when I go in to get the O-rings

Thanks Again
Matt
(And I was an Mech Engineer, doesn't always help)