450: Leisure Furl on Lagoon 450?

[Yatt]

Dave, thank you very much for your reply. I am close to order one on the Island of St.Marteen later this year as the current main sail is realy no fun and sometimes dangerous.

But I am still not sure about the specs. Forespar recommends a 20/7 offshore LF (Part# 866057) and a 20/7 &25/7 Vang (Part# 353100) for a Lagoon 450. There is also an option to get a Passagemaker additional to the LF for additional USD 960.

The Passagemaker seems to be a new option from Forespar and I am not sure if I should order one as well. I did not see it on your pictures.

Which Vang did you got? I do not want the first one which got broken on your boat, but the stronger one

There are also some more options from Forespar and I have no clue which of them make sense and which do not:

- Additional Sheet Bales – 20/7 & 25/8
- Heavy duty Harken Pad eyes on Welded pads
- Double Mainsheet Fairlead
- Mast Bracket & Swivel for LF Vangs
- Yacht Rod Swivel Only

Best regards,
Martin

[DavefromNZ]

Just sent PM with my email so we can discuss. After I went around NZ I was determined not to put myself or crew at risk again with having to hang off the back to untangle reefing lines or control a thrashing sail in 60kts - it damaged the Bimini.

[Yatt]

Dave, LF says that the LF is designed to be furled downwind (even on any point of sail) - is this true? What are your experiences with reefing the main on downwind courses? If it possible to furl it on any TWA? Thank you very much!

[DavefromNZ]

The simple answer is no, don't try to furl downwind and what Forespar says is ridiculous unless in 5 kts wind. We have furled downwind in 25kts and you have to push the boom fully out and against the stays and raise the boom or the sail will move forward on the mandrel. It is very difficult.

The best way is to have the boom a long way out and turn into wind. The sail will flap as you are maybe 30-45 degrees across the waves and this works very well. Reefing is then quick and easy.

Anytime there is a stronger wind or pressure on the sail the boom has to be raised or the sail will move forward and eventually jam. I raise it two-three finger widths from the mark on the vang I normally use.

From the 9.50mins on this video you can see the motion treble reefed with 32kts across the yacht. Actually very good.

Cheers
Dave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHYiGH3QTTs

[bez]

Hello Dave,

Following on from the discussion on the L450S thread, I've continued to investigate the possibilities of a in boom furler.
I now have a quote for a ROMAR - LeisureFurl system, which is about 45K Euro including sail and hydraulic boom vang (and VAT).

The key point is now of course going to be whether I can convince Lagoon/dealer to credit the boom and sail as we'll be suggesting that this installation option ought to be in the option list.

Will keep you posted.

[warren460]

Bez, you might not have a problem if you can sell the rig to one of the many 450,s that lost rigs in the bvi.

Perhaps call some charter companies.

[Yatt]

45K Euros seems to be very expensive. I had a qoute from FKG Marine on St.Marteen. Leisure Furl Boom 19K USD + 12K USD for a new main. No taxes. Unfortunately they are not able to do this works before end of March as Leisure Furl cannot deliver any booms to the Caribbean due to an increased number of orders by damaged yachts.

Before signing up for a new L450F last year I have asked my dealer to trade in the existing boom and mainsail and replace it with a furling boom in France. This was not possible. I have recieved a quote from Yacht Concepts in la Rochelle / France after my L450 has been delivered. Leisure Furl Boom 29K Euros + taxes, new Mainsail 20K Euros + taxes. All together around 60K Euros incl. taxes. So the option on St.Marteen was a much better choice - before St.Marteen and the Caribbean was hit by Irma.

[DavefromNZ]

My suggestion would be firmly against the hydraulic version. Apart from the extra expense there is the complexity in fitting and operating that is not necessary. Our version has the reefing rope drum hidden in the rear of the boom and so looks tidy and is a genuine one person operation.

Prices seem rather high. It was three years ago but my boom was NZD20k (12k Eur), sail by Doyle’s NZD12k (7k Eur), 7 batten but cheaper material, Dacron? Vang 1500 Eur.

Fitting was about 8k Eur. Cost included mast taken down. My neighbor in L440 had his fitted with mast in place. No need to fit a snubber on L450F as the rope tension (reefing line up, halyard down) is fairly light and I just put one turn around the mainsheet winch and let it run through my hand.

Sail down to NZ [emoji16], May be cheaper here and KZ Marine are the original designers.

When I read the reefing problems on the other thread I recall how difficult the old reefing was, the tangled and stressed lines.

Cheers, Dave

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

Sail down to NZ [emoji16], May be cheaper here and KZ Marine are the original designers.

When I read the reefing problems on the other thread I recall how difficult the old reefing was, the tangled and stressed lines.

Cheers, Dave

NZ has a great reputation for cost effective and high quality yacht building, refitting and repairs.

Pardon my ignorance, but can you effectively reduce sail ("reef") with your boom furler in 20 to 25 knots of wind aft of beam?

[DavefromNZ]

I have reefed with the Leisure Furl with 20-25kts from aft. But I won’t do it that way anymore . It requires the boom to be pushed out to the stays and raised so that the sail doesn’t move forward on the mandrel, and jams against the mast. The hinge on the mast groans.

We reefed easily, and quickly, in 35kts and 4-5m swells with the boom eased so we were about 30-40 deg to the waves.

[tuskie]

Thanks Dave. I think downwind reefing is hard on gear, no matter what type.

[bez]

Dave,

I have now got the information about credit for the sail, and am continuing talks about a furling boom. One item for discussion is the hydraulic boomvang. Can you let me know what brand/type of vang you have? The quoted price for a hydraulic system is over 8,000 EUR, which is a lot more than what you mentioned.

Cheers, Bez

[DavefromNZ]

I would suggest that the hydraulic will probably be a bad idea. Why add the complication and hassle of a hydraulic motor and lines when the roller in the end of the boom looks tidy and works fine? The electric main halyard winch does all the work on the L450F. Sounds good if they are finally crediting the sail.

[bez]

The hydraulics is only for the boomvang, not for the furling mechanism. They quoted one of those pump panels. It looks a bit over the top, but it's all about loads I guess. I assume your boomvang is the Forespar Yacht Rod "exra large"?
How does that work in practice?

[DavefromNZ]

Oh I see. I think my one may be the big spring type. I use a rope with pulleys to pull it down. Yes must be quite strong as I have it take the full weight of the boom and sail with the topping lift off. I use the topping lift to go up the mast. It cost NZD2,000 (EUR1,000?).