General Info: Lagoons Vs Fountaine Pajots

[ireaney]

I am considering buying a 38ft or 40ft catamaran for coastal cruising/channel hopping and would love to hear from anyone (especially delivery skippers) who have experience of sailing both the Lagoon 380 and/or 410 or Athena 38 and/or Lavezzi. The things I would like to know is which in your opinion which is/are the best built, the most comfortable to live on and be on during rough weather and finally the best performers in all winds and points of sail. What I would like is comparisons between the 380/Athena and the 410/Lavezzi. Or if anyone can suggest a good alternative in the same price and size range, I would love to hear. Thanks Ian.

[josef]

Ian, Are you buying new or used?Would you consider going up to 46 feet? Had a superb,comfortable atlantic with 50 plus knots wind at times with an FP Bahia.Excellent to live on with stacks of room.Definitely recommend FP.Sorry cannot help with Lagoon.Never liked the look. Josef

[ireaney]

Hi Josef, thanks for your reply, I do like the Bahia 46, my 2 main problems are that I have a swinging mooring that can have a maximum size boat of 42ft and has been given extra room for a multihull on a river that is so crowded that there is physically no more space and no. 2, I do a lot of single handed sailing and I feel that 40ft is the maximum I would like to handle. Ian

[josef]

Ian Understood.I had a good look at the boat show">London Boat Show at the new FP Mahe.Excellent except for unprotected helm position.I think they are doing something about that.The old Lavezzi is a great boat and you can pick them up now at good prices and spend a little upgrading.Definitely like FP.If you get a chance go round the factory near La Rochelle.Good luck with your search. Josef.

[Cesar]

Hola Ian: disculpa que te escriba en español, pero es que practicamente no se inglés (espero que aún así te pueda servir de algo).
Acabo de vender mi Lavezzi 40 (me he comprado el nuevo Salina 48) y te puedo decir que es muy resistente. He navegado en duras condiciones (sobre todo en el paso del estrecho de Gibraltar y en la desembocadura del Río Guadalquivir) y el barco se ha portado excelentemente. Ni un crujido, ni una rotura, ningun tipo de percance.
El Lavezzi 40 navega francamente bien; en ceñida me ha sorprendido mucho, yo creía que marcharía menos, pero la hace rápido y con un ángulo muy correcto (he llegado ha navegar, dando bordadas, con un angulo muerto de 100º mirados en el GPS). Y que decirte con viento de popa: el barco navega como sobre dos railes, si bandazos; los platos y los vasos jamás han caído de la mesa. Con respecto al Lagoon 38 (el 41 es algo mas barco) te puedo decir que nunca he sido alcanzado por uno de ellos; por contra yo si les he dado alcance en alguna ocasión.
En lo referente a la distribución y en comparación con el Athena 38 y el Lagoon 38, el Lavezzi es francamente superior. La bañera es un encato; con pasillos que facilitan enormemente la circulación y el acceso a los asientos: puedes entrar y salir del salón al resto de la cubierta sin necesidad de saltar y si estorbarte con nadie. En el interior la cocina, entre el salón y la bañera, es genial, pues permite servirse tanto cuando estas sentado en el salón como cuado estás sentado en la bañera.
Las bajadas a los cascos son comodisimas, es como si bajaras una escalera en tu propia casa.
Los dos baños y los cuatro camarotes son correctos y suficientes.
La mariobra en cubierta está sumamente simplificada, por lo que resulta muy comodo de manejar. Yo practicamente lo hacía solo (aveces es preferible hacerlo solo que con alguno de los invitados).
No se que programa de navegación tendrás planeado, pero para travesías transoceanicas el barco, aunque capaz, lo veo un poco justo (este es el motivo por el cual yo he decidido comprarme el nuevo Salina 48).
Si tienes alguna consulta que hacer, no dudes en eviarme un e-mail (aunque sea en inglés, ya lo traduciré).

Que los vientos te sean favorables y tu proa este siemple clara.
César.

[ireaney]

Hola Cesar. Sorry I also cannot speak or write any Spanish, but I have translated your reply. Many thanks for your information about your Lavezzi. Did you have a bowsprit with a gennaker or screecher sail? if so did it make a lot of difference to the speed. I hope you enjoy your new Salina, it sounds great, Ian

[Cesar]

Hi Ian. En mi barco solo tube las velas estandar: mayor de 55 m2 y genova de 35 m2.
El manual del construcctor recomienda reducir la superficie velica a partir de 18 nudos de viento aparente; por lo que para cruceros cortos no es indispensable. Otra cosa es atravesar el Atlántico. Una segunda vela en proa te puede ir muy bien para las navegaciones con viento en popa y no tener que subir la mayor; solo largar el gennaker por una banda y la genova por la otra (ten en cuenta que con la manga del barco, al ir de popa, la escota de la genova la puedes cazar en la cornamusa central y resulta como si fuese atangonada). De todas formas, con viento trasero, de 120º hasta 180º, al pasar su velocidad de 20 nudos, sobra casi todo el velamen; solo con la genova puedes navegar por encima de los 8 nudos (yo, con vientos de 30 a 35 nudos, he llegado a cojer velocidades de mas de 14 nudos).
Para el nuevo Salina 48 si he pedido un gennaker (con botalón) de 70 m2; claro que mi programa para este nuevo barco es el de circumnavegar el planeta.
Cordialmente: César.

[ireaney]

Hola Cesar, Again thanks for the information, it is very helpful. Good luck with your voyage around the World in your new Salina. Best regards Ian

[muskoka]

Here's my high school Spanish version of Cesar's post - unfortunately his 2nd post was way too technical for my meagre skills......

====Cesar====
I have just sold my Lavezzi 40 & bought a Salina 48 - and I can say to you that it is very well built. I have sailed in hard conditions (Strait of Gibraltar & the mouth of the Guadalquivir) and the ship has behaved excellently without breakage or other mishap.

As for the layout compared to Athena 38 and the Lagoon 38, the Lavezzi is best. The cockpit is enclosed with walkways that facilitate the crew movement: you can sit at the cockpit table without being in the way. In the interior the kitchen, between the lounge and the cockpit, is brilliant, since it allows you to use so much when you are seated in the lounge or the cockpit.

The Lavezzi 40 sails well; I have been surprised by it very much, the boat is fast and ???points to wind well??. And with a following wind: the ship sails like on two rails; the plates and the glasses have never fallen. With regard to the Lagoon 38 (actually a 41) I have never been reached by one of them; for against me if I have given them scope in some occasion.

The stairs to the hulls are the most comfortable, it is as if you were in your own house. Two baths and four cabins are correct and sufficient.

The mariobra in covering is extremely simplified, for what it turns out to be very comfortable of handling. ???mariobra???

For ocean passages the ship, although capable, I see as a little small (this is why I have decided to buy to myself the Salina 48).
====Cesar====

[BambooSailor]

When it comes to space, Lagoons feel much larger than FPs of the same length. Lagoon 410 has the space comparable to FP Belize 43' (it is even beamier). And those vertical windows sure open up a lot of interior space. Lavezzi feels (and is) much smaller. One suggestion before you make a decision: go and charter both for a week and see for yourself. Crawl through the boats, see how they sail, how much they flex, etc. What I do not like about L410s is that their engines are mounted under aft berths as opposed to separate engine rooms on most FPs and other Lagoons.

[ireaney]

Thanks BambooSailor, I was intending to do just that ie charter my final 2 choices, The point about the engines being under the aft berths I would not imagine as a problem (except noise if you were trying to sleep) presumably so long as you look after the engines and regularly check hoses, filters etc you are unlikely to have fuel leaks etc which I would imagine is the worst scenario. I was also under the impression that the 380 and the FP's by having the engines that much further aft could accentuate pitching/hobby horseing due to putting a lot of weight at the hulls extremities. Servicing surely is easier on the 410 as by removing the mattreses, and covers there is a very good access and also dry if it is raining. Could the engines not be insulated more under the bunks by building a simple case with sound proof material as they have used in the 380 engine bays. Again I would welcome any body's views on this matter. Thanks Ian

[muskoka]

We looked at the Lagoon 380 and the Lavezzi 40 - and we chose the Lavezzi. I'd agree that the Lagoons do seem larger for any given size (the 380 is 18" shorter yet seems as big as the Lavezzi inside). In any event, the prime factors behind our decision:

1. Sailing: The Lavezzi has a far better SA/D ratio (27 vs 21) which will make for much more fun whilst sailing, and when loaded for a cruise it will hopefully still turn a decent speed. And they have a reputation for seakindly behaviour with little or no hobby-horsing.
2. Deck Layout: Basically, the Lavezzi cockpit allows crew to do their thing without clambering over people sitting about. This is where the extra 18" of length probably makes the difference. It's just a very neat and clean cockpit.
3. Separate Engine Compartment: I have never liked engines in occupied areas - it may be a necessity on smaller boats but IMHO it's something to be avoided if at all possible. Diesel engines stink, they're hot, and they're noisy.
4. Styling: This is pure arbitrary personal preferance - but, as a designer I find the Lavezzi to be a more innovative design inside and out. The Lagoon has a very nice interior and it does have those nifty hull windows in the staterooms as well!!

That being said, we liked both boats very much, but the above were our list of priorities and the Lavezzi came out ahead. And there were many areas in which the 380 excelled. At the end of the day, it's all personal and I think your plan to charter both is essential to making a decision.

Cheers

[The South African]

Hi Ireany
I have looked at both the Lagoon and the Fontaine Pajot and then decided to buy the Leopard40. That is another option to consider.

[Oma Dasala]

Hi.
Looked at both Lagoon and FP Lavezzi at the annapolis boat show. Hit my head trying to enter the saloon. I'm not quite 6ft. This compeletly over ruled all other all other positive features for me. Ended up with the 420 Lagoon after looking at everything else at the show.

[Cesar]

Hi Ian: El Lagoon 41 no es comparable con el Lavezzi 40. Las comparaciones son Lagoon 41-Belice 43 y Lagoon 38-Lavezzi 40. Mira los precios de los barcos tanto nuevos como usados: este dato es el que te indica que barcos comparar con que otros barcos. (Por ejemplo: el Lagoon 38 mide 11,55X6,53 y el Lavezzi 40 mide 11,90X6,50; son muy parecidos!). Normalmente Fountaine Pajot hace los barcos con un poco mas de eslora (tal vez, alargue un poco la popa para centrar los pesos).
Otro dato importantísimo es el de la ubicación de los motores. La primera vez que ví un Athena 38, me llevé una desagradable sorpresa nada mas entrar en el Salón: el olor a Diesel!. Yo no compraría un catamarán con los motores dentro. Procuara siempre que las camaras de motores estén fuera (los ingenieros ya habran mirado en tema de "el peso en un extremo") independientes de los camarotes de popa. Incluso la sentina de los motores tiene que ser otra totalmente distinta a la del resto del casco (porque así los aceites y las perdidas de diesel no te pasaran dentro y no te daran olor). Es muy desagradable un barco que, en su interior, huele a diesel y a aceite del motor.
Buena suerte en tu compra.
César.