General Info: Lagoon Models with Dry Heads

[timinfla2]

Hey gents (and ladies),
I really love the Lagoon salon layouts with the vertical windows. It adds so much room, dimension and visibility. What I am NOT in love with is the wet heads. Don't get me wrong, I can imagine some rare unmentionable occasions where it may be advantageous to be sitting on the toilet while having a shower but if I had my druthers, I'd prefer to keep the toilet dry and keep the water in the shower area.

I noticed on the Lagoon 450 (and up), they do a swell job segregating the toilet area from the shower area where the sink faucet doesn't double as a shower head. Is that a practice only done on the larger (450+) models or did they start separating the wet/dry(ish) areas after a given year even on the smaller models?

Thank you very much for any info.
Tim

[Dennis.G]

Why the hell does any 45' sailboat require FOUR heads? Even two is overkill, but would make room for at least one decent shower.

[timinfla2]

Originally Posted by Dennis.G

Why the hell does any 45' sailboat require FOUR heads? Even two is overkill, but would make room for at least one decent shower.

Why four heads? I dunno, maybe my wife cooked and four people were crazy enough to sample the food? Haha! I don't know, I could think of a dozen reasons 4 heads would be needed but I really don't care if there's 1 or 5. I just want them dry and I'm hoping somebody can tell me if Lagoon only makes dry heads on certain models, or on all models after a certain year...

Thx!

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by timinfla2

Hey gents (and ladies),
I really love the Lagoon salon layouts with the vertical windows. It adds so much room, dimension and visibility. What I am NOT in love with is the wet heads. Don't get me wrong, I can imagine some rare unmentionable occasions where it may be advantageous to be sitting on the toilet while having a shower but if I had my druthers, I'd prefer to keep the toilet dry and keep the water in the shower area.

I noticed on the Lagoon 450 (and up), they do a swell job segregating the toilet area from the shower area where the sink faucet doesn't double as a shower head. Is that a practice only done on the larger (450+) models or did they start separating the wet/dry(ish) areas after a given year even on the smaller models?

Thank you very much for any info.
Tim

450 and 400 they are Dry. I'm pretty sure on the 39, 42, 52 also they are Dry.

From what I've seen, the older (440, 380, 410) 'Style' has wet heads, the newer 'style' from 2011 onwards are mostly dry heads, and for sure the 2017 new styles onwards seem to be as well.

We certainly prefer it, it was one of the deciding factors between a 440 and the 450 we eventually bought (and love).

Regards

Mark.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by Dennis.G

Why the hell does any 45' sailboat require FOUR heads? Even two is overkill, but would make room for at least one decent shower.

We have 3, and the pt-fwd one is quite likely headed for the chopping block when we do further renovation. Both the ones on the Port side are 'full' bathrooms with toilet and separate shower, so yes, seems a waste for our usage at least.

I wouldn't trade our owners bathroom for quits though !. I never ever want to 'back in' to a toilet ever again, having done it for FAR too many years on Subs.

Mark.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dennis.G

Why the hell does any 45' sailboat require FOUR heads? Even two is overkill, but would make room for at least one decent shower.

Charter trade looking to sell charters to 4 couples.

[Bean Counter]

No different to the modern 4 bedroom house with 4 en-suites, people like their privacy. In a 1950's house there was one bathroom that had bath/shower with a plastic shower curtain a toilet and a single basin and that was it. When I was a kid in the 60's my grandparents house which had 4 bedrooms had an out side earth closet toilet. The laundry had a boiler and hand wringer and was next to the lean to car port. On that same block of land today is a 2 story 4 bed with 4 bathrooms , 4 car garage etc etc etc. So the 4 bedroom 4 bathroom catamaran has replaced the 8 berth monhull with one wet hand pumped head, no water maker and no solar panels and an HF radio for coms.

[timinfla2]

Originally Posted by Catapault

450 and 400 they are Dry. I'm pretty sure on the 39, 42, 52 also they are Dry.

From what I've seen, the older (440, 380, 410) 'Style' has wet heads, the newer 'style' from 2011 onwards are mostly dry heads, and for sure the 2017 new styles onwards seem to be as well.

We certainly prefer it, it was one of the deciding factors between a 440 and the 450 we eventually bought (and love).

Regards

Mark.

Mark,
That's exactly the info I was hoping for - it sure beats going on YW and combing through all the pics to figure out who's got the Dry Head and Who Don't! Thank you for taking the time...

It's coincidental you mention that being the reason you went after the 450 Vs the 440 because I'm in exactly the same position. I think the 440 is a MORE than fine vessel, but those dang wet heads. It seems nitpicky I'm sure but this is going to be a liveaboard for me and my family so I'm hoping to replicate at least some of the more pleasant comforts of home while abroad. I'll check out some of the other post 2011 models as well to see what I can find. Thanks again!!!

-Tim

[timinfla2]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

No different to the modern 4 bedroom house with 4 en-suites, people like their privacy. In a 1950's house there was one bathroom that had bath/shower with a plastic shower curtain a toilet and a single basin and that was it. When I was a kid in the 60's my grandparents house which had 4 bedrooms had an out side earth closet toilet. The laundry had a boiler and hand wringer and was next to the lean to car port. On that same block of land today is a 2 story 4 bed with 4 bathrooms , 4 car garage etc etc etc. So the 4 bedroom 4 bathroom catamaran has replaced the 8 berth monhull with one wet hand pumped head, no water maker and no solar panels and an HF radio for coms.

Funny you mention this... I was griping to my dear old dad the other day about the girls taking up so much time and space in one of our 3 bathrooms we have in the house and he told me that when he was a kid, growing up in Detroit, they lived in a 2 bed, 1 bath house. And that was normal. But here's where it gets great - being from West Virginia, it was normal for entire extended families to live together. My grandparents, at one time in that little house in Detroit, in a 2 bedroom house had 5 couples plus children living there - and it was considered normal.

Thank God for basements I guess....

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by timinfla2

Mark,
That's exactly the info I was hoping for - it sure beats going on YW and combing through all the pics to figure out who's got the Dry Head and Who Don't! Thank you for taking the time...
It's coincidental you mention that being the reason you went after the 450 Vs the 440 because I'm in exactly the same position. I think the 440 is a MORE than fine vessel, but those dang wet heads. It seems nitpicky I'm sure but this is going to be a liveaboard for me and my family so I'm hoping to replicate at least some of the more pleasant comforts of home while abroad. I'll check out some of the other post 2011 models as well to see what I can find. Thanks again!!!
-Tim

440 is a fine boat, 450 is a better boat ! (BIASED !!).

This boat is home, we live on it full time, and wanted to make it as much like 'home' as we could, whilst still sailing the world (within reason).
We also plan to own this boat for a long time (10 years at least), and fix it up as needed.

There were just too many little things nicer about the 450 (over the 440) that made us go for that instead of the 440. We've thoroughly inspected and sailed both.
(Note: I'd never, ever, buy a 4 cabin for cruising, just no).

That said, we still did a lot of stuff to ours, see thread "Refift for a Cruising boat' in this forum where I posted all the work done, and also the 450 Mods thread for a bunch of others.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Regards
Mark.

To quote someone else on this forum. "The replacement for the 450, is a 450'....

[timinfla2]

Mark, I read your refit thread with great interest. I am interested to hear why you'd never go cruising on a 4 head boat. I would assume it's because of the loss of the full size master bath but I'll let you tell me.

I sort of liked the idea of another bedroom since, the heads being ensuite, there wouldn't be much inconvenience to Amy and I other than a smaller shower/head.

Additionally, I don't come from the school that believes both guests and fish begin to smell after 3 days. I only make friends with the very best of people so it's always too early when they have to leave. This is, of course, on land - perhaps my attitude will change on water but I somewhat doubt that so I figured I'd really welcome one additional berth for more guests.

Thanks for your thoughts!

-Tim

[Bean Counter]

Of course one can cruise in a 4 bedroom cat, if you have a large family or sail most of the time with 7 or more people 4 bedrooms will be convenient, private, etc. A large number of cruisers are a single couple and 80% of the time just two people on board. Full time live aboard means the owners versions with large bathroom, open spaces, a writing desk etc are nice comforts to have, not essential, but nice. One can also cruise in a 30ft mono hull - it is just a question of preference and money. I notice that some manufactures are now offering a "duo" layout so that is two big bedrooms and two big bathrooms in the 40ft plus category.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by timinfla2

Mark, I read your refit thread with great interest. I am interested to hear why you'd never go cruising on a 4 head boat. I would assume it's because of the loss of the full size master bath but I'll let you tell me.

I sort of liked the idea of another bedroom since, the heads being ensuite, there wouldn't be much inconvenience to Amy and I other than a smaller shower/head.

Additionally, I don't come from the school that believes both guests and fish begin to smell after 3 days. I only make friends with the very best of people so it's always too early when they have to leave. This is, of course, on land - perhaps my attitude will change on water but I somewhat doubt that so I figured I'd really welcome one additional berth for more guests.

Thanks for your thoughts!

-Tim

Hi Tim.

To be clear, you CAN cruise on a 4 cabin of course, and many do. I just wouldn't.

Our boat is our home, quite often it is just the two of us. The feeling of space, storage, general roominess etc of the Owners hull on the 450, vs the 4 cabin is frankly amazing for a boat. (Whilst at the same time, does not reduce seaworthiness, it isn't so big that you can't brace etc).

More room in the bathroom, decent shower that does actually fit 2 people occasionally, Toilet with space around it, LOTS of storage, etc etc. Lots of storage in the area between, space for a computer, In my wifes case, space for her sewing machines.

We very nearly bought a 4 cabin, for price reasons, and the 'more guests' thought also, and are extremely glad we did not.

If we were to run out of bedrooms due to guests, there is always the lounge converted to bed, the cockpit lounge as a bed, the bed in front of the helm, to sleep extra people. (Or kick the kids to one of the above if you have them (we don't) for a short time whilst said guests are onboard). It is unlikely to be for a long time.

That said our two cats can take up an entire bed on their own, usually ours, when they want to.....

I know for sure, that my wife is far happier with the owners cabin, than she would be living in a 4 cabin. And you can see this easily, as she didn't like living on the 'port side' as much for a couple weeks when work was going on on stbd side.

Also, I think you'd find you'd end up using one of the 4 cabins for storage anyway, the smaller cabins have significantly less storage. (order of magnitude less).

Take a look at them, try for yourself obviously. All that I know is the 450-3 Cabin was our ideal boat from the first time we saw one, all the other options (380, 39, 400, 440-4 cabin, 440 owners, new 42. Yes, we went through a few options !) were due to money, until turned out we could get the one we actually wanted.

Anyway, yes, Im biased and a fan, but hope this helps.

Regards

Mark.

PS: Even our master shower dosn't get as much use now during the summer cruising, since I fitted a Rain-Head shower hanging off the solar array. We both like to rinse off after a swim, and it works great.

Will post a pic in refit thread when I get a min.

[malbert73]

The less heads the better! At least for any owner who maintains the boat for any length of time. If I fell in love with a boat with 4 wet heads I’d convert 1 head to a dedicated shower, another to storage.

[timinfla2]

Wow you guy give VERY solid points that obviously come from real life. I'm always easily convinced to yield to experience!

It just seems there is quite a large premium on owners versions (for good reason apparently!) and I guess coming from the landlubber perspective, who could argue with an extra bedroom and bathroom!

I get it now though - on a boat, most decisions are maintenance and space driven. If I can afford it, I'll look for an owner's version.

I did see a pretty neat layout here - https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...g#.W2wrgthKjOQ

it's a 3 berth owners version, but only 2 heads. Seems like a great combo! And best of all, DRY HEADS, haha! Can you tell that's my sticking point?

Thanks again for all the advice/feedback.

-Tim