450: Lagoon 450S Roller Furling Spool Slipping and Jamming

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by fxykty

But the bungy even when fully stretched is transferring all the load to the seagull striker isn’t it? But if the seagull striker can handle that then OK.

The bungy stretches to over twice its length and also dampens the shock load (why its called shock cord?), so when the pole if pointing down vertically and the bungee is at full stretch the forces are not from the side but from below.

[Moontide]

Didn't read all the posts so maybe already suggested. I have seen several cats which have a small block attached to the seagull striker stay to raise the lead to the center of the furler drum. This should solve the problem.


Good luck,
Bill

[Sherpa17]

Would this work?? 10mm shock cord with 16mm Ronstan low friction ring. 14 "loa. Thought of covering it with cover from cored double braid. Made with stuff from the basement.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by Sherpa17

Would this work?? 10mm shock cord with 16mm Ronstan low friction ring. 14 "loa. Thought of covering it with cover from cored double braid. Made with stuff from the basement. Attachment 224788

Will likely work initially when set to correct length, but needs to be adjustable as bungy loses stretch over time. The friction ring is so light it may be pulled too easily out of alignment compared to a heavier roller bearing block that will have gravity help with dampening movement, but that is just guesswork, ring could be fine in the L450 setup.

[Moontide]

Seems to me the bungee would work as long as it is not too long. There is less load on it when pulling out the jib but do need enough tension so it will wrap correctly.

I have never heard of any issue with the block directly attached to the seagull striker being pulled out of alignment being a problem. Way more load on the stay than the furling line.

[TomBarton]

Small block bungeed to striker worked.
Winch out the jib against pressure from the outhaul....usually a wrap or two on the winch.
Wraps up nice and tight

[R Hutcheson]

Sounds like you need to adjust the lead of your roller furling line to be perpendicular to your roller furling drum. That should fix the problem.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by R Hutcheson

Sounds like you need to adjust the lead of your roller furling line to be perpendicular to your roller furling drum. That should fix the problem.

If it’s like on our cat that would mean raising the turning block 100-200mm up off the deck - not very practical. Hence the lifting of the furling line so that it lines up better.

I like the idea of a bungy cord to lift the furling line when it’s not under much load, but allows a straight pull to the turning block when furling the sail and avoiding strain on the martingale stay. Genius.

[sv Stella Maris]

Common issue. Like said before, best place on our 450’s for a pulley redirect is between the forward lifelines attached to the SS tension câble. We cut the black plastic conduit and slipped a shackle on. Voilà, no more trouble.

The black conduit holds the shackle in place. We have a 60mm pulley and it works great. Spools pretty clean; but I still go forward and fuel it perfectly by hand when the weather permits. This makes a big difference when needing to fuel the sail in a hurry with an approaching squall / blow...

Also, Insend a kid forward to sit on the stbrd now next to the dolphin seat to assist with a few lines of pulling. This reduces the multiplied force at the winch a great deal. I recently redirected a friends cat to come straight back like a mono. We used a 60mm redirect near the anchor cleat on the cat walk and then to an empty space on the mast base, then to another empty space on the organizer. On the 450 this would require an additional clutch though...

But between them furling line and eliminating continuous-nightmare-reefing we can sail her relatively easily and safely. (switched to leach line reefing and reef point shackles for 1 & 2 to more resemble your standard reef 3...but the line and trigger-shackle remain at the tack, one on each side, and the webbing has a tack-ring on both sides of the sail to make access safer depending on weather direction.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by sv Stella Maris

Common issue. Like said before, best place on our 450’s for a pulley redirect is between the forward lifelines attached to the SS tension câble. We cut the black plastic conduit and slipped a shackle on. Voilà, no more trouble.

The black conduit holds the shackle in place. We have a 60mm pulley and it works great. Spools pretty clean; but I still go forward and fuel it perfectly by hand when the weather permits. This makes a big difference when needing to fuel the sail in a hurry with an approaching squall / blow...

Also, Insend a kid forward to sit on the stbrd now next to the dolphin seat to assist with a few lines of pulling. This reduces the multiplied force at the winch a great deal. I recently redirected a friends cat to come straight back like a mono. We used a 60mm redirect near the anchor cleat on the cat walk and then to an empty space on the mast base, then to another empty space on the organizer. On the 450 this would require an additional clutch though...

But between them furling line and eliminating continuous-nightmare-reefing we can sail her relatively easily and safely. (switched to leach line reefing and reef point shackles for 1 & 2 to more resemble your standard reef 3...but the line and trigger-shackle remain at the tack, one on each side, and the webbing has a tack-ring on both sides of the sail to make access safer depending on weather direction.

So you have the stainless shackle constantly rubbing on the stay wire, i.e. metal to metal ? made even worse when the furling line is under tension. You have a 2016 boat so maybe in 2023 you might have a wear issue here.

[sv Stella Maris]

TinTin- I’ll keep an eye on it. But I’ve got about 30-50 other metal to metal connections both dynamic and static from the factory... Not too worried if I loose 0.25mm on a 20mm cable ;-)

[sv Stella Maris]

Lines are slackened since my kids change everything at anchor to make for better Tarzan-Time !

But you can get the idea. This is also detailed cleaner on the Lagoon Owner’s facebook page...

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by sv Stella Maris

TinTin- I’ll keep an eye on it. But I’ve got about 30-50 other metal to metal connections both dynamic and static from the factory... Not too worried if I loose 0.25mm on a 20mm cable ;-)

I agree if it was 20mm rod, but the shackle is rubbing against a strand. One busted strand and the whole cable needs replacement. You shouldn't find too many places where stranded wire is rubbing against other metal, check your diamond wires too, they are extremely close on some Lagoon mast types and riggers put a leather spacer in there.

[sv Stella Maris]

Tin Tin...very good point and I’ll check. I do recall a couple years ago my surveyor commenting on the diamond rigging needing a shield at the contact point; but he didn’t explain why very well.

A single strand fatigue necessitating a complete cable replacement is much more realistic and preventable. I’ll get up my rig and check it out...thanks :-)

[CatPeople]

A redirect block is a great idea as it will change the angle and the point on the drum vertically where the furling line first touches the drum. With the factory designed and installed system we have had issues with our 450S genoa furler bunching up on the lower half of the drum. We have had a couple of jams which required that we re-thread the line while underway (at night in heavy seas of course). The reason for the jamming appears to be that the furling line enters the drum cage near the bottom of the furler's drum instead of middle or top. This is made even worse by gravity which wants to pull the line down too, especially if there are any periods of slack in the line during the un-furling operation. Without a redirect block, we have been managing the poor drum take-up by making sure that there is no slack in the furling line when it gets wound on the drum, keeping firm hand tension on the furling line by wrapping it one or two times around a winch in the cockpit and letting it out in synchronization with the pull on the sheet. Clearly not the most reliable or beneficial solution - a redirect block is the answer.