450: Lagoon 450 Windlass Quick,Dylan FAIL

[DavefromNZ]

It looks like our windlass (Quick Dylan 12V 1700W) has failed. It is pulling the chain up at about 1/3 the normal speed, needs help using a winch handle and stalls. The electric motor is hot with an overheat smell.

Has anyone else had a failure? Any suggestions to fix?

My current thoughts are to replace with a stronger and better quality winch with local access to parts, probably Maxwell. The Quick always seemed to be underpowered and struggled in winds or deeper depths.

Any comments would be appreciated!

Thanks, Dave


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[TOT]

Hi Dave
No issue with ours.


SV TOT
Wayne 😃

[Emerald Sea]

Dave. We are seeing our same Dylan diminish in power also. Not to the point yet that I have to put elbow power into it but after your email I guess thats coming. A few months ago I cleaned up all the electrical connections but this didn't make any noticeable difference. And its been frustrating to get any assistance from Quick. Some time back the helm remote had failed, even after changing out the magnet and sensor. Is this the beginning of the end?

So Im curious to if other Dylan owners are experiencing the same and what their fixes have been.


Steve
L450
SV Emerald Sea

[DavefromNZ]

Hi Steve,

I found a post under Engineering, Anchor from another L450 owner who had double failures a year ago. I had fixed the magnet/sensor 4 times. I think I may end up with Maxwell.

Did you find the two windlass relays and see if they looked OK? The schematic shows one maybe in the generator locker and the other in the starboard aft cabin electrics cupboard.

Where are you now?

Cheers, Dave


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[Emerald Sea]

Dave, indeed there is a 'contactor unit' (relay) in the generator room that has six connections on it (battery and controls). These i cleaned up to ensure no oxide exists however it is possible that this unit is at fault. I sent off another email to Quick after reading your note above and now await their answer. If they don't reply I will give them a call. I'll get back to this thread no later than the end of next week. I may invest in a spare 'contactor unit' regardless. I recently bought a spare relay box for my electric Harken winches.

I haven't yet done much research on a replacement windlass. Have you heard good feedback on the Maxwell's? Which model are you looking at?


Steve
L450
SV Emerald Sea

[Emerald Sea]

Dave, no sooner did I reply to you, then I received this email from Quick. You may want to take this up directly with them if your still considering keeping it. I will try a few of these troubleshooting ideas before deciding what to do.

Dear Mr. Poulson,
regarding the loss of power of your windlass, at a distance it’s hard to determine what could cause this problem and quantify exactly the size of the loss. The causes could be related to the motor itself:
worn out brushes (not your case, the 1700W motor has very thick and long lasting brushes, motors come to the end of life before to worn out the brushes).
Motor wet/oxidized, this could happens despite the motor has an IP67 case, if mounted properly.
The only way to understand what happened will be to remove the motor from gearbox (pay attention not to lose the key on the shaft), open up the case, the metal cap that covers the brushes holder and check for excessive dust, oxide or other anomalies.

The other component that could cause the motor to force and slowdown might be the gearbox, usually the damages are related to the disengagement (complete or partial) of brass gear-crown, mostly due to thug from the chain (chain left on the gypsy with no secure), I can’t exclude oxide, dirt or other issue that impaired the base bearings, could happen in case of lack of cleaning and maintenance or “heavy duty” utilize of the windlass (more typical on charter boats).

I would try to measure the voltage between the motor poles (on the solenoid contactor unit maybe it’s more easy) when it’s running, casting and retrieving the chain. Your problem could be just a weak battery.
Having an Ammeter clamp available, might be meaningful to know the current drainage of the motor.
Any additional data, picture of parts and further detail you could forward me will be great.
Awaiting to hear from you,
Best regards
Mauro Brera
Technical Assistance Office
mbrera@quickitaly.com


Steve
L450
SV Emerald Sea

[monte]

That's good service. I've emailed quick a lot and never had a reply!

[Two Drifters]

We liveaboard a 440 and had a Quick - nothing against Quick but they are middle of the road products.

Our gave up the brushes (changed and repaired) then we had an issue with the oil in the gear box getting emulsified.

In the end chopped it out for a Lewmar V5 - which is better but still goes through brushes, but we are in the Med and anchor almost every day during the season in depths that range from 5 to 15m most days but often in 20 to 30m

We have a 35 Spade and 12mm chain so it has to work very hard from deeper waters.

If you are replacing get one that gives you some manual operation option

VB
2D

[Two Drifters]

PS even the Lewmar V5 is slightly underspecced

[Chuck Hawley]

I have a few thoughts, most of which have been suggested by quick, but with some additional observations.

1. Voltage drop could be happening at the contactor, but where there is voltage drop, there's generally heat. If the contactor isn't getting hot, it's not likely the problem. Having clean connections is always a good thing, however.

1a. If the problem is at the contactor, you should be able to measure voltage between the wire coming from the battery to the contactor, and the wire leading to the windlass. There will always be some voltage drop, but if it turns out to be half a volt, that's substantial in a 12V system. And, if the windlass draws 200A, the contactor would be dissipating 100W of power.

2. A small clamp-on ammeter like the Blue Seas System Mini Clamp is extremely useful for this type of problem. It's ideal for measuring the voltage (or voltage drop) in the circuit, but where it really shines is the ability to measure currents in the range of starter motors and windlasses. You should be able to find the maximum current draw for your windlass (perhaps 150A or so) and compare that to what you measure.

3. Voltage drop is (best) measured under load, so you have find accessible points in the circuit to measure voltage drop as the windlass is in operation. First, measure the voltage across the battery terminals (say 12.5V). Then measure the voltage across the motor terminals (say 11.5V). See if you can identify the portion of the circuit where the voltage drop is excessive.

Cheers,

Chuck

[herbert.dietz]

same Problem we had also- had to Change all bearings in the gearbox because of bad sealing in the top of the winch-on our new 52 is now build in a lewmar v5 works now 28 month without Problem (2000 watt Motor) it seams to be cheaper to by a complete
winch set with relays und fuse then to by many spareparts like Motor or gearbox

[DavefromNZ]

Thanks for all the info everyone and especially Steve, very useful!

I have a feeling that the gears may have been damaged when the yacht was used for fishing and anchored in deep water but not with the bridle - not by me.

I am having a marine electrician have a check this week. However still think I may be best to replace now rather than try to fix.

I have looked at the Maxwell RC12. That is 1200W vs Quick 1700W. However it is geared down albeit still 15m/min and so the Quick has a max load of 1,150Kg and the Maxwell 1,590 kg. All reviews are excellent for the Maxwell. I think it may slot right in but I have said to the boat builder I want it over engineered with a backing plate.

Cheer, Dave




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[D&D]

We replaced our Quick about 2 years ago after it exhibited very similar symptoms. No problems at all with the new (identical) unit...and in fact we love it because we took the changeover as an opportunity to install a chain counter.

We believe the original problems were the result of lack of regular cleaning and lack of care to avoid excessive or shock loads. Our anchoring protocol now is very strict, digging in the anchor only after the chain is lead to a cleat, and then always using the bridle... and we take care to strip, clean and grease the windlass head thoroughly and regularly.

[DavefromNZ]

The problem found was the 1700W motor had failed and was drawing 200A with no load. At the same time we checked the gears and they looked in excellent condition, 4 years old. In fact it looked like it was well built. So we are replacing the motor and solenoid and putting new gear seals in. About USD1,500.



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[Catapault]

Looks like I'm heading down this road for sure now.

Today whilst anchoring, the Remote chain counter gave out. (First 'sensor failure', followed a few mins later by neither up nor down button working).

Also windlass seems to be seriously slow pulling chain up. Its really not happy.


Dave, did your replacement motor fix you issues long term ?

Also, looking for a favour. Can anyone with a 450 and 12mm chain, time how long it takes to both drop, and pull in say 10m of chain ? I'd like to compare if my idea of slow, matches others with similar gear. (i.e. is it slow, or is this normal for this windlass).

Regards

Mark.