440: Lagoon 440 Performance ?

[impi]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Today we were anchored in a bay on the Nth Western side of the old city of TROGIR in Croatia, Split radio issued a wind warning for 40 knots NE to NW. We were essentially ok if NE but on a lee shore if there was West in it.

You guessed it it came from the West so we up-anchored and motored into it to get into the lee of the mainland, at present we are baby sitting our 6 and 4 year grandchildren on board whilst their dad visits Ibiza.

The grandkids must wear life jackets whilst we move, they have been taught to enjoy swimming in them and we have retrieved them by boathook making a game of it so if it ever happens they won't panic.

Anyweay today didnt come to any rescue, we motored into 45knots of steep choppy crap, LI-LO'S blew past us like leaves, even small RIB's without motors were flying on their mooring.

We were in the upper helm position the kid's were roaring with laughter, oblivious to the chop and very strong wind heeling the 50 foot bare pole Beneteau mono's at 20deg or more.

This often de-rided upper helm position (by the armchair critics) is fantastic, you see the squalls, the floating debris and the waves to angle to, decision confirmed we love it.
The kids? No green gills just total glee watching the storm and the goings on.....Good stuff!
We will do ARC 2014, Cheers Frank

Hi Frank,

I find this so amazing as we have so often had the same experience being up on the helm of the 440. In fact, Ana usually prefers to be up there in heavier seas as she says she feels safer there than down below. The lower down one is (ironically) the more severe the sea seems to feel (Ok .. I am not talking about being up the mast now)

I have been sailing a lot of cats recently and must tell you that there is not a day that goes by where I am sorry we went for the 440 ... only reason I would like to go bigger is so I can recline in a 'Lazy boy' ... I really miss that on a boat !!!

I think the 440 speaks for its self ... a broker in the USA called me to please let him know when I want to sell as there is a demand building for the 440's. The same broker tells me he personally was not that keen on 440's initially but has come to realize the significance of the boat in the number of inquiries he has for them.

Only disappointing thing to me is the small size of the bathrooms in the guest quarters.

The V shape in the middle, under the boat which reaches into the trampoline area has been one of the most fantastic designs out! On several occasions in severe swell steepness we have been able to sail straight down the wave without fear of the bows digging in where we observed some other cats having to widen their angle for fear of 'digging in'.
As the hulls drop into the water, the V in the middle eventually makes contact with the sea and 'floats' the hulls back out again ... this still amazes me every time!

As nice a feature as the 'middle V' is, I still cant help but feel it makes the front of the boat look ugly though!

[impi]

Originally Posted by dirkdig

Totally agree.
It is amazing how many self appointed experts there are around that have never been on a 440 let alone got one going in the open ocean.
Great machine.

Yeah ... I was nearly one of those ... had sold the Catana 471 and were strolling around the boat show looking for another cat to purchase ... a cruising cat to sail around the world with. At first I walked right past the 440 on display due to finding it's upright windows 'ugly'. On our back Ana and I were about to walk past it again when we decided to have a look 'anyway'. We instantly fell in love with the space, the head room, the 360* views, the bed which is queen size and not 'wall to wall', the fly bridge and the 'fold away table' in the cockpit roof.

Sailing the 440 is incredible ...

[Lagoon4us]

Agree on the shower/heads portside, i would truly rather just one central large one there.

Something for you all to check, we noticed our anchor shank was sitting higher than normal when in the stored position, upon investigation we found the Stainless Steel fabrication that bolts under the cross beam as well as behind it had bent severely, it seems the small bolts under the crossbeam had loosened and once loose had stripped the threads in the slug that it bolts too.

The only time there is load on this is when the bridle isn't on which isn't often, please check yours it ain't an easy repair.

Personally i think the interior trim on the 440 beats the others, we like the curved and rounded timber edges.

Hate smacking my head on the galley cupboard DOORS, Viv is 5 foot nothing and would love to hit her head, i just keep forgetting to close them when browsing......DER!!!!
Cheers off to Greece soon.

[impi]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Agree on the shower/heads portside, i would truly rather just one central large one there.

Something for you all to check, we noticed our anchor shank was sitting higher than normal when in the stored position, upon investigation we found the Stainless Steel fabrication that bolts under the cross beam as well as behind it had bent severely, it seems the small bolts under the crossbeam had loosened and once loose had stripped the threads in the slug that it bolts too.

The only time there is load on this is when the bridle isn't on which isn't often, please check yours it ain't an easy repair.

Personally i think the interior trim on the 440 beats the others, we like the curved and rounded timber edges.

Hate smacking my head on the galley cupboard DOORS, Viv is 5 foot nothing and would love to hit her head, i just keep forgetting to close them when browsing......DER!!!!
Cheers off to Greece soon.

Wow ... something to check tomorrow ... thanks for the 'heads up'

Could that not also possibly happen from 'driving over an anchor' which is stuck when lifting it?

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by impi

Wow ... something to check tomorrow ... thanks for the 'heads up'

Could that not also possibly happen from 'driving over an anchor' which is stuck when lifting it?

We haven't had that situation here, the ground is all sand and weed, we idle up and let the wave and vertical pull have its effect. That's not to say the damage wasn't done prior and threads were stripped. I gotta admit i it's one area up under there that i never looked at prior to purchase.

I think it's a design weakness,
1) The slug that the bolts tap into in the track is alloy so you have alloy and ss in a very wet area. If these bolts loosen at all then all strength is gone.

2) There is also corrosion between the ss pad (has a form of insulator pad) and the forebeam.

3) I note the 420 chain goes over the top of the beam not sure about the 450 but would love to get photos of one to compare.

4) The anchoring load (when not on the bridle) is rotational on the forebeam, don't like that too much.

We have asked our agent for availability if there is an issue i'll redesign and fabricate my own in Turkey or Greece this winter.

[Angels of Rio]

Sounds like a lot of very happy 440 owners around out there, it is also good to see feed back, be it positive or negative from people who have actually sailed the 440. I have seen a lot of critics on this site who have never actually been on a 440, how can you comment on something you have no expirience of.

I would much prefer to see that type of thread start with "Despite no personal experience my opinion is Bla Bla Bla.

We have not had our 440 very long only a few months, which we purchased in Barcelona Spain. Had a great trip last week down to Ibiza and back, cruising and anchoring for a week. It was a 22 hour trip & I just love that fly bridge for cruising and visibility. Saw Dolphins and a large green turtle on route.

We are heading back to our wintering ground in Gibraltar from Barcelona in a few weeks. A leisurely cruise stopping in at the Balearics and also Mar Menor, the huge salt water lake between Alicante & Cartagena connected to the sea via a canal.. Can not wait.

[Lagoon4us]

You know you've nailed it in your comments, when we researched what boat to buy we googled every skerrick of info off the net, every 'Staley Weiddeman the Third' video, every U-Tube video and every 440 that was available at the time.

In that time i found not a single complaint about the design other from these two sources:-

1) The dumb-arse armchair-pilot gallery:- Regarding alleged brass skin fittings and un-tinned copper wiring. I've looked at more Lagoons on the hard than any other breed and still cannot find those dastardly brass skin fittings! Copper wiring? Yes corrosion or wicking? No.

2) From those who bought from new:- A lack of warranty support/back up unless through major dealers, ie EYB ANACASTA etc... Exists and should arm every new boat buyer to complain, but alas i think it goes with the race.

That was it! Nothing more, i found a couple of dis-mastings, and a loss in a storm off the East coast of USA sad but isolated.

Upper helm position/high boom! It only annoys those who don't have it.

Not for serious sailing on oceans! 2011 ARC was fantastic for Lagoons, This forum has members who have crossed the Pacific and Atlantic in their boats, good enough for us to commit our life savings to.

Some of these people need to get an idea of what Cruising is about, it is about enjoying a lifestyle in kicked back form, it is seeing/meeting people, it is about enjoying life it's about being there and doing it.

Last week we were in 45knots for a few hours, our 6 year old and 4 year old g/kids squealed with delight from the upper helm.

We are off to Turkey soon and look forward to putting our personal touch to our boat with solar and more sails, getting ready for ARC 2014, we have just about done Croatia now.

Cheers great to see your posting, Frank & Vivien

[Angels of Rio]

Frank,

We will be wintering in Gibraltar from end of September until spring next year (few local cruises of course) If you are passing do luck us up.

The boat is Angels of Rio named after my wife (Brazilian from Rio) and daughter

Cheers Nige & Marts

Life is to short enjoy it to the full

[impi]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

You know you've nailed it in your comments, when we researched what boat to buy we googled every skerrick of info off the net, every 'Staley Weiddeman the Third' video, every U-Tube video and every 440 that was available at the time.

In that time i found not a single complaint about the design other from these two sources:-

1) The dumb-arse armchair-pilot gallery:- Regarding alleged brass skin fittings and un-tinned copper wiring. I've looked at more Lagoons on the hard than any other breed and still cannot find those dastardly brass skin fittings! Copper wiring? Yes corrosion or wicking? No.

2) From those who bought from new:- A lack of warranty support/back up unless through major dealers, ie EYB ANACASTA etc... Exists and should arm every new boat buyer to complain, but alas i think it goes with the race.

That was it! Nothing more, i found a couple of dis-mastings, and a loss in a storm off the East coast of USA sad but isolated.

Upper helm position/high boom! It only annoys those who don't have it.

Not for serious sailing on oceans! 2011 ARC was fantastic for Lagoons, This forum has members who have crossed the Pacific and Atlantic in their boats, good enough for us to commit our life savings to.

Some of these people need to get an idea of what Cruising is about, it is about enjoying a lifestyle in kicked back form, it is seeing/meeting people, it is about enjoying life it's about being there and doing it.

Last week we were in 45knots for a few hours, our 6 year old and 4 year old g/kids squealed with delight from the upper helm.

We are off to Turkey soon and look forward to putting our personal touch to our boat with solar and more sails, getting ready for ARC 2014, we have just about done Croatia now.

Cheers great to see your posting, Frank & Vivien

Hi Frank and Vivien

You going to enjoy this one ....

Have a mate who ALWAYS 'talked down' the upper helm station on the 440's, sail ability etc. etc. etc. ... been sailing for decades and far more experienced than I am ..

He sails a different model of catamaran and had never sailed the lagoon. Just came back from having sailed on one and is ranting and raving about how much he enjoyed the helm position and totally 'blown away' with it's performance ...

He was having a drink with me and is wondering how much he will get for his cat as he wants to buy a Lagoon!

This, from a guy who has STRONGLY DAMMED the upper helm position

Just goes to show ... a lot of people without having experienced actually being on one are more critical of the 'Idea' rather than the 'experience'.

[Lagoon4us]

We were in Zadar and a 'Sunsail Leopard 44' was tied up next to us, the ones with the fwd doorway, Ian & Tonya Koblick were on board with their families, Ian is a renowned seafarer/treasure hunter who owns 'Deep Blue Charters' based in Malta, Ian & Tonya have 'treasure hunted' the world so to speak. National Geographic have worked often with them.

They were on the Leopard 44 because they own one in the Caribbean and get a certain amount of weeks use of similar boat anywhere in the world.(their choice) They also said it was the best investment they have done.

We sailed in company for a few days, had races/chases etc, the conclusion they came to after dinner on board our boat was they would sell the Leopard as it was due to come out of charter and buy a Lagoon 440 simply because they believed it was twice the boat the Leopard is.

Cockpit room, curved timber corners and huge owners cabin with a 'real' shower!!!

Your mate 'eat the humble pie' LOL, hey i disliked the vertical windows on 440's, the last cat i sailed was a Schionning 14.80 Waterline and i have to say the heat through sloped windows is crazy, but having now experienced these vertical windows we love it, cool as..

Tell him i know of 3 very good ones 2 in Croatia and 1 in Spain, a stunner will be for sale in MARMARIS in winter the owner has only ever washed it with distilled water it has very similar gear to ours except no Profurl on boom....

Loved the story, we'll be interested in your charts and pilots of Carib if they are available prior to Nov 2014???

Cheers Frank

[impi]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

We were in Zadar and a 'Sunsail Leopard 44' was tied up next to us, the ones with the fwd doorway, Ian & Tonya Koblick were on board with their families, Ian is a renowned seafarer/treasure hunter who owns 'Deep Blue Charters' based in Malta, Ian & Tonya have 'treasure hunted' the world so to speak. National Geographic have worked often with them.

They were on the Leopard 44 because they own one in the Caribbean and get a certain amount of weeks use of similar boat anywhere in the world.(their choice) They also said it was the best investment they have done.

We sailed in company for a few days, had races/chases etc, the conclusion they came to after dinner on board our boat was they would sell the Leopard as it was due to come out of charter and buy a Lagoon 440 simply because they believed it was twice the boat the Leopard is.

Cockpit room, curved timber corners and huge owners cabin with a 'real' shower!!!

Your mate 'eat the humble pie' LOL, hey i disliked the vertical windows on 440's, the last cat i sailed was a Schionning 14.80 Waterline and i have to say the heat through sloped windows is crazy, but having now experienced these vertical windows we love it, cool as..

Tell him i know of 3 very good ones 2 in Croatia and 1 in Spain, a stunner will be for sale in MARMARIS in winter the owner has only ever washed it with distilled water it has very similar gear to ours except no Profurl on boom....

Loved the story, we'll be interested in your charts and pilots of Carib if they are available prior to Nov 2014???

Cheers Frank

Good one Frank ...

Regarding the charts and pilots ... I will let you know when we are ready to 'let them go' ...

Cheers
Brent

[Angels of Rio]

Frank/Brent, reading the last few threads just brings a wide grin. The old adage for time immemorial being "don't knock it till you have tried it" even opinions, which every one is entitled to, can be misleading, unfounded and confusing.

If you love what you have that's great, if not change it (if you can of course) then every one is happy.

Nige

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Angels of Rio

Frank/Brent, reading the last few threads just brings a wide grin. The old adage for time immemorial being "don't knock it till you have tried it" even opinions, which every one is entitled to, can be misleading, unfounded and confusing.

If you love what you have that's great, if not change it (if you can of course) then every one is happy.

Nige

[Sand crab]

Is it possible to fix a windshield or dodger panels to the flybridge canopy?

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Is it possible to fix a windshield or dodger panels to the flybridge canopy?

There's a choice of windscreen attachment points for the upper helm, one is nicely forward and the other is back a bit and is the standard Lagoon screen position, i've attached one that uses the aft position, we will opt for the fwd i think it looks less stubby.

Need to get clears in roof to see main with as well.

We have had ours up in 45knots and it shuddered but was certainly strong...

Cheers.