420: Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by stoomy

It is my understanding that David Tether now works for Lagoon.

David Tether is currently CEO of Electric Marine Propulsion, and a Consultant to Lagoon and Groupe Beneteau

Electric Marine Propulsion, LLC
4765 Estero Blvd
Ft. Myers Beach, FL 33931
Phone: 239.463.1824
Fax: 239.463.1485
E-Mail: Dave@electricmarinepropulsion.org
Web: E motion Hybrids Home

Dave Tether spent 20 years working for the U.S. Navy in Crypto, EMC, EMI and EMP.
As Founder, CEO and Inventor of Solomon Technologies, Inc. in 1991 he led the company to design, test and build the first commercially available complete Diesel Electric Propulsion Systems for pleasure boats. He left Solomon in 2005.
He is also a consultant to Lagoon and Groupe Beneteau on their DE initiatives. Dave was responsible for three US and International patents.
Today he is CEO of Electric Marine Propulsion, LLC and continuing to design and develop DE systems for pleasure boats.

***
Securities Exchange Commission Complaint:
SEC v. DAVID E. TETHER The Commission announced the filing on Aug. 3,
2007, of a complaint against David E. Tether in the United States
District Court for the Middle District of Florida. Until August 2004,
Tether was the chief executive officer and a director of Solomon
Technologies, Inc., a Florida corporation. Solomon's securities have
been registered with the Commission since January 2004. The
Commission's complaint alleges that in April 2004, Tether fraudulently
misrepresented his beneficial ownership of Solomon stock in Solomon's
amended annual report filed on Form 10-KSB/A for the year ended Dec.
31, 2003. Specifically, the complaint alleges that Tether transferred
200,000 shares of his Solomon stock while that stock was subject to a
publicly disclosed lock up agreement and that the stock was used to
pay for a 47-foot catamaran. However, as alleged in the complaint,
Tether failed to disclose in the Form 10-KSB/A that he had transferred
his locked up stock. Additionally, the Form 10-KSB/A overstated
Tether's beneficial ownership of Solomon stock by the 200,000 shares
he had already transferred. Moreover, the complaint alleges that
Tether failed to file timely a Statement of Changes in Beneficial
Ownership of Securities on Form 4 disclosing the transfer of the
shares. Based on this conduct, the Commission alleges that Tether
violated Sections 10(b), 13(g) and 16(a) of the Securities Exchange
Act of 1934, and Rules 10b-5, 13a-14, 13d-1(d), 13d-2(b) and 16a-3
thereunder, and that he aided and abetted Solomon's violations of
Section 13(a) of the Exchange Act and Rule 13a-1 thereunder. In its
complaint, the Commission seeks a permanent injunction, disgorgement
plus prejudgment interest, a civil penalty, and an officer and
director bar. [SEC v. David E. Tether, (U.S. District Court for the
Middle District of Florida, Civil Action No. 2:07-CV-488-JES-SPC (M.D.
FL)] (LR-20226)
Goto: SEC complaint against David E. Tether:
David E. Tether: Lit. Rel. No. 20226 / August 6, 2007

[sailvi767]

I spoke last week with the crew on a Lagoon 420 chartered from Conch Charters. I don't recall the name of the boat but it has to be the only one in their fleet since they don't have many new boats. The crew was told the boat had the G2 upgrade. Does anyone know if this is true? They were very dissappointed in the boat and would not charter one again. They spent 4 hours motoring from Cane Garden Bay to Monkey point in the BVI. At one point they thought they might have to turn back. Conditions were rough for the BVI. Winds were 20 Knots gusting to 30 knots and they were motoring directly into the wind and chop. They were only seeing 1 to 2 knots at full power into these conditions and in the gusts saw 0.0 for periods of time. They were with a group of conventional cats who arrived hours ahead of them on a short leg. It really sounds like perhaps Conch told them the boat had been upgraded when it has not been however it would be interesting to know for sure.

[ess105]

Beats me why folks think of turning back rather than putting up a sail on a sailboat - the 420 flies in weather like that. Looks like they are making the right decision. If they're the sort of people that rather motor than sail then other boats probably do suit them.

[sailvi767]

I agree with you on the sailing part. I just spent 6 days on the boat. We were in the same type of conditions all week. We burned 30 gallons of fuel the entire week and ran the AC/genset every night for 10 hours. I still however wonder if the boat was upgraded or not. If it has the upgrade then the boat has other problems or the upgrade has not solved the basic problems. I remember the original claims of Lagoon for the 420. The boat is not anywhere near what was promised. A salesman at one show told me the boat would motor for 4 hours at 8 knots on batteries alone. I still hope perhaps that my next boat will be electric so I want to see those types of claims met and exceeded. There will have to be basic design changes however to reduce fuel burn. Diesal fuel is now over 6 dollars a gallon in the BVI and may top 7 soon.

[ess105]

Fortunately I have never heard 4 hours at 8 knots because this is way beyond what they can do. Message 977 on this thread is basically the current benchmark. If you intend to use this boat as a sailboat then this is more than adequate to motor out of anchorages, get the sails up, sail to where you want to go then motor to your destination anchorage - repeat as necessary. I'm putting solar on Dignity to keep the house bank fresh over long stays so we don't have to draw down the drive banks.

I'm pleasantly surprised by your fuel use given the amount of A/C usage. We won't need the A/C much once we move aboard - we got this mainly for charter guests. We'll probably use it in marinas when we're plugged in to shore. Out on the hook the goal will be zero diesel burn.

This all being said, your original salesman's claims may not be so far from fact when we eventually put Lithium Ion batteries aboard. Auto industry is driving costs down so sooner or later we'll be doing this.

[Spellbinder II]

I've chartered Shrek for a couple of weeks in the BVIs and will hopefully be able to provide an unbiased review of the performance or otherwise. It does bother me that people charter sailing vessels and then ignore the sails as soon as there is a headwind!

Sorry ess105, I wanted to charter Dignity, but you are booked out for one of the weeks I have for vacation, or should that be holiday?

I was on a 420 last week and heard that the 2009 model might have an extra metre of mast added to increase sail area. Anybody know if there is any truth in this?

[ess105]

No probs. Not many free weeks left on Dignity before we move aboard permanently. I've not heard about the extra meter on the mast but any form of change is no surprise. Lagoon typically learn lessons as they go and translate into improvements. Would be a little worrying if they didn't.

[Octopus]

Originally Posted by Spellbinder II

Just need some owners to confirm that the upgrade delivers what is claimed!

We had the G2 Upgrade installed on Octopus six weeks ago, while in St Martin, just prior to embarking on our passage back home across the Atlantic, via Bermuda and the Azores. I can report that the G2 Upgrade delivers exactly what Lagoon promised.

However, although some of the features of the upgrade are nice to have, we find the benefits are not really geared to liveaboard lifestyle. If you keep your 420 in a marina and just use it for day sailing then it's great, but if you are living on the hook, island hopping, then the benefits are not so significant.

- Quieter running at dock or underway through the ability to switch-off cooling fans and chargers.

This is true, but the same benefit was achievable before, it was just less convenient.

- Addition of a boost button giving 10 minutes of full power (even if battery is below 60% charge)

This is useful in emergency, but should be used with caution. The Lagoon technician who installed our upgrade prefers to describe it as an emergency boost. We have used it onece to bring the boat into the wind to reef in heavy seas and gale force winds.

- Additional 2 knots of speed in mode 4, as more genset power is distributed to propulsion.

This for us is the biggest benefit of the G2 upgrade, as it allows us to use AC equipment such as watermaker, washing machine and electric cooker while motoring.

- Emergency starting capability in the event of battery pack or circuit board failure.

Not sure about this.

- New engine controls, more adapted to the feel of regular throttle controls.

The new controls are much better

Post upgrade owners should expect the hybrid to deliver a maximum speed of 7.4 knots.

We achieve this even on our fully laden 420 (4 tonnes of supplies and equipment), but the batteries must be fully charged and this speed cannot be maintained for long. before the batteries discharge.

For us, the biggest drawback to the 420 is that the 72/12 DC/DC converters are now controlled by the power management system and are shut down if the propulsion batteries fall below 80% and don't switch back on again until they are back up to 86%. For livaboards living on the hook, the huge battery bank means you have an abundance of power, but if, like us, most of this is taken from the 12V system via an inverter, then the loss of DC/DC converters means that the 12V batteries are not kept topped up. We got round this by bypassing the relays on the converters.

The G2 upgrade is a big improvement for most people, less so for us, but we can expect further improvements as the concept gets developed.

Chris and Beth
Octopus, L420, Hull 52
Isle of Arran, Scotland

[Saler]

Has anyone used the salon table area for a bed? Can it be configured that way inside or outside. We are chartering a three berth 420 in the fall and have a couple of land lovers who may want to join us for a night aboard. Thanks

[Octopus]

Originally Posted by Saler

Has anyone used the salon table area for a bed? Can it be configured that way inside or outside. We are chartering a three berth 420 in the fall and have a couple of land lovers who may want to join us for a night aboard. Thanks

If your charter boat comes with the saloon bed conversion (short legs, large table and infill cushions), which is unlikely, then you can convert the saloon area into a double bed. However, this is a very unsatisfactory bed as the aft saloon seat cushions are held in place by velcro pads (just about the worst design feature on the 420) and so never stay in place and the conversion relies on this cushion staying in place to hold the infill cushions in place. Consequently the 'bed' soon falls apart!

However, all is not lost. by the simple expedient of removin the cushion backs to the forward saloon seat, you have a very usable single bed. The cushion backs and other cushions can then be used to make another servicable bed on the floor. Not perfect, but fine for a few nights.

Chris
Octopus, L420, Hull 52,
Isle of Arran, Scotland

[bob.hunt@pgadc.]

Originally Posted by ess105

Lot's of interest, it seems, for the Lagoon 420. This thread is a hangout for owners (current or future) to hang out and get in touch.

If you're a current, future or possible owner, please introduce yourself, and let us know your aspirarions.

For my part, I am the owner of Hull #42 which I intend to name "Dignity". I will have Dignity in charter for a few years (with CatCo) whereupon my wife and I intend to live aboard and cruise.

Steve

Hi Steve
We are in the final steps of the decision making process but are a little scared about the 420 Hybrid - do we go for traditional diesel or is the Hydrid as good as the PR - cruising Greek island and Med so liitle long haul!

Bob

[Octopus]

Originally Posted by bob.hunt@pgadc.

Hi Steve
We are in the final steps of the decision making process but are a little scared about the 420 Hybrid - do we go for traditional diesel or is the Hydrid as good as the PR - cruising Greek island and Med so liitle long haul!

Bob

Hi Bob

All I can tell you, is our 420 hybrid has never let us down. The abundance of electric power for domestic use, provided by a powerful generator and huge battery bank, transforms the cruising experience. The hybrid is reasonably economical, but not outstandingly so. The controls for the hybrid propulsion are fairly simple, but do take a little getting used to.

The 420 provides outstanding livability, hybrid or diesel.

I would buy another hybrid, given the choice.

Chris
Octopus, Lagoon 420 Hybrid, Hull 52
Isle of Arran, Scotland

[Mark424]

Apologies for the double post - I put this on a separate thread, but didn't get any replies. I guess this thread is where the 420 owners hang out.

A few months back I was in Ft Lauderdale looking at older cats, had the opportunity to take a look at the L420 & 440. Must say I was impressed by the layout. There has been a big change in cat designs in the last 15 years. At 6'4" with broad shoulders (and waist), the older cats just aren't the same - even the big cats.

I only got a short time to look at the L420 as it was a boat in for warranty work so the owners and techs were scrambling about. One thing I did notice was that the generator wasn't as quiet as I expected. When they opened the hatch in the cockpit I could hear that part of the noise was from panel vibration. Sure enough, I put my hand on different parts of the gen enclosure and there was lots of vibration and rattling. This seems like something that could be easily be solved - there are lots of adhesive synthetic/rubber sheets that are made for reducing this kind of noise. Similarly, you could feel vibration throughout the cockpit. Most generators run at a single RPM, so instead of the typical wide bandwidth engine mounts used on propulsion diesels there are mounts/dampers that are tuned to a narrow freq band so that they have much more vibration isolation.

Yes it was quiet, but it wasn't silent (or vibration free through the hull) - I've been on well built mono's that were similarly quiet under power. Are these options that perhaps these owners didn't buy?

Has anyone added additional sound/vibration dampening? or upgraded mounts?

I'm glad the G2 is providing improvement, I prefer the helm on the 420 v 440 but here in So Cal wind averages ~9-10Kn so there is lots of motorsailing and down right motoring.


Thanks

Mark

[ess105]

I have yet to acquire the same level of experience on my boat as others here. From our own experiences on Dignity I wasn't left with the impression we'd need to dampen anything once we'd move aboard. I had the opposite experience while motor sailing in light winds in that I couldn't hear when the generator started. No doubt it is possible to dampen further if that is required. I am not aware of this being an option available from the manufacturer.

[catinq]

Hey Steve,
You mentioned awhile back that you were due for the upgrade......have you received it yet and if so what is your impression?