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Old 10-12-2006, 09:42   #166
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A relevant quote from the Lats & Atts Review ....

Quote:
The hulls are fuller than the 410 which allows the boat to punch through waves and chop, so although slower at top speed than the 410, the 420 delivers a respectable average speed over a long passage. Under sail, eight knots may be expected in a 12 knot breeze.
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Old 11-12-2006, 04:13   #167
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I still find it rather "irritating" that the multihull-guys do pretend that the hybrid-system is fully working although we all know, that up to now Lagoon has some problems.
They do not even mention in their "test" anything about loading the batteries while sailing, so I've got some doubts whether they really tested the boat. It reads more like an ad sponsored by Lagoon...

Has anyone of you got news from the Paris-boat-show. The Lagoon-guys had anounced that they would solve all problems until then...

I am also most curious about the results of the testsail in Ft. Lauderdale.
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Old 11-12-2006, 04:17   #168
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Quiet Riot,

ín your posting you mentioned that you would attend the test-sail on Saturday. So PLEASE share your experiences!!! :-)
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Old 11-12-2006, 06:32   #169
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sailing

Well, it was blowing 20 knots and it was decided that the demo boats should not go out on the ocean...
I find it curious that no one has ever seen that the batteries can actually be charged while sailing.
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Old 11-12-2006, 07:13   #170
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Yes, yes Pieter, we know, we should all purchase a Leopard (from you?)...
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Old 11-12-2006, 23:01   #171
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Group email to Lagoon

My 420 demo ride in Fort Lauderdale never left the dock, this was bad as I still have no idea how the boat sails or regenerates power to the batteries. But on the good side, because we had already put an deposit down long ago none of the Cat Co salemen wanted to spend much time with us and went out on the other boats and left my brother and I alone on the boat for about 3 hours to explore the boat and systems in detail without anyone watching over our shoulders. We were even able to access the inside of the breaker panel cabinet that houses the AC breakers, the DC breakers, the 5 position switch, the motor switch. and the 72V circuit board with relays. From my pictures I was able to find most of the breakers on-line. The batteries are "Tudor" which is the European name of Exide batteries, so their availability for replacement should be no problem. I have many detailed pictures of boat electronic and systems that I would be happy to pass along to others on request.


I am considering writing an e-mail to Nick Harvey at Lagoon America to discuss a few major concerns I have and I was wondering if any of you potential 420 owners would like to add any questions to the ones I am discussing below. I am trying to keep my questions at this time to a more general nature, and not with specific design issues. I would also like to know if you would like to receive a reply to the questions posed directly from Lagoon, by adding your name, Brokers name, and your e-mail address to my (our) letter to Lagoon. Anyway here are some of my concerns that will be included in the email:

1) I would like to get an up date on the delivery schedule, and for Nick to confirm that the latest 6-7 week delay is the last, and in my case, hull #11 will come off the line in France the last week of January 2007. My 8 week cushion between delivery to the BVI and my first booked rental has now shrunk to only one week!

2) Having witnessed the electrical system up close and in pictures I can tell you that it is fairly complex. Who is going to fix our new 420's if they need service as much as the first 3 experimental boats have? It seems only fair that Lagoon sponser an on board electical training session for interested 420 owners or future technicians as soon as possibe after the first of the year. In these sessions everyone should be given an electrical schematic and a parts list of the components and their manufactures. (Even if I/we have to pay for them)

3) For the safety of families or delivery captains heading out to sea to cross the Atlantic, it seems only prudent that they have some knowledge or list of the special electrical spare parts they might need to carry with them on their journey. This first parts list must come from Lagoon as they are its only source. This is why Lagoon needs to be more open with its owners as to what problems they are experiencing, and what parts they are having to change out or replace. Sources for purchasing these spare parts should also be made available. Maybe if Lagoon were a little more forthcoming in their progress updates for the boat, there wouldnt be so much rumor and speculation as to what they are doing right or wrong!


4) Because there is no longer any time to test the new "changes" being made to the propulsion system, the first 15 or 20 boats off the line will be the new "experimental 420's", replacing the first 3. With this in mind how long will Lagoon bankroll the fixing or changing out of problem parts that are not functioning properly or continually failing? How will Lagoon help us keep updated in their latest changes to the basic drive systems components?

5) One such rumor is that the regeneration from the motors while sailing is not producing nearly as much energy as expected. It would be nice to see some actual figures as to the amount (amps) of recharging that actually takes place at varying speeds and conditions. Surely someone at Lagoon has logged this data. Did you, Nick, experience regeneration on your trip down from Annapolis?

These are some of the questions that have come to my mind since returning from Fort Lauderdale. Again I would like to hear from other owners if they would like to become part of the letter/e-mail to Lagoon America's Nick Harvey? I feel that we will have a greater chance of success in dealing with Lagoon if we stick together and use the numbers game to our advantage. If you would like to join this e-mail, just send me your questions to include, and I will send everyone a copy of the e-mail before I send it on to Nick with all our names and email addresses for him to respond to.

Let me know what everybody thinks,

Douglas Lundy

dblundy@prodigy.net
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:47   #172
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Thumbs up Letter to Lagoon

Douglas

I'm happy to support your letter and will send you my details by private message. I thought you letter was pitched at exactly the right level and was very well expressed.

I have plenty of questions, but none that wouldn't distract from your central theme. Most of my questions will be answered when I see the boat in the flesh - hopefully next month.

My queries concern:
1. Ability to take the ground safely due to short keels
2. Vulnerability of rudders
3. Sailing abilities in low winds
4. High voltage (220AC) wiring
5. Impact of weight on speed
6. Wiring harness - does the basic harness provide for all the options
7. Sailing performance polars
8. Number and position of cleats and pad eyes
9. What the options actually represent (e.g. anchor and mooring line set - what size anchor, chain, warp etc., what's included in the various electronic options, etc.).

In general my instinct is to be patient and try not to rock the boat (if you'll pardon the pun). I don't think harassing Lagoon will make it any easier to get it right and open criticism might erode their reputation and destroy the resale value of their/my boat. Or perhaps it's just my traditionally-English reluctance to complain.

I'd love to hear and see details of the boat.

Thanks

Chris
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:50   #173
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Douglas,

I am largely in agreement with you. I definitely would like to receive much more information than just the brochures. I am less interested on challenging Lagoon to be open with all the problems they have had as this may be counterproductive. If your letter was oriented towards forward looking information gathering I would gladly add my name.

I would also be very interested in receiving your pictures.

Steve
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Old 12-12-2006, 17:57   #174
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Given that #11 will come off the line in late January 2007 surely the earliest ones are in the hands of their proud owners.

It woudl be interesting to get some input fromthose owners.

I agree that you do not want to run down the value of your investment by too loud a whinge before you have tried the product.
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Old 12-12-2006, 18:34   #175
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Steve,

I would be happy to just use the 1st two sentences of question 3) or to add sometime else to show Lagoon the need for thier input as to what spare parts must be on board for major crossings. They are the only ones with this knowledge at this time! Add your own words for to question 3) if you like, that's what this letter is all about. Any input is welcome. Once we come up with a final draft, I will email everyone involved with that draft for final approval before sending it on to Nick.

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Old 12-12-2006, 18:43   #176
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DtM,

I have traveled many miles to try the product out twice, and twice the product broke down just before my ride/sail. Thus I think my inquiry is entirely justified, especially when you are considering the safety of going to sea with no spare parts or no knowledge of how to change any parts you might have quessed at to bring along. Running down the value of your investment has nothing to do with it!

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Old 12-12-2006, 19:16   #177
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Steve,

Do you have high speed internet so I can send you the 5 megapixel version of the pictures. With the high resolution you can zoom way in to read lables! I already have your email address and will send the pics directly to you.

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Old 12-12-2006, 20:45   #178
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Riot,

I couldn't agree more about safety. I was just concerned with your resale/value.

daniel
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Old 13-12-2006, 03:57   #179
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Douglas,

Do you have Word?

If so, I'll take your text, put it in Word, turn on tracking, make my edits and mail you directly.

I do have broadband so email for the photos should work. I'd try and keep each email under 5MB though.

Steve
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Old 13-12-2006, 17:32   #180
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20 kts and they wouldn't take it out? WTF? Quiet Riot, I am totally with you on the letter. I would also appreciate the pictures. I'll PM you.

Thanks.

ID
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