400: Lagoon 400

[peterp]

Hello Garold and all, first a bit of a update from down under, last weekend flew to Sydney for the boat show, had a look at the latest L400 demo the dealer had on display complete with the new overhead cupboards and draws and the large outside table all of these things I was keen to see in the flesh, whilst sitting at said table we had the great pleasure of meeting D&D, fellow contributors to this thread, lovely folk (they are still wannabies) On our order we opted for two fridge freezers no draws, so we carefully measured all available storage space in the saloon area in planning preparation for our L400 arriving next month, we have already purchased ‘Tefal’ stackable pots and pans with removable handles, they will fit in the bottom cupboard next to the nav station, cutlery in top draw, sundry stuff in middle draw, plates on one shelf in the cupboard above the electrics, which leaves two shelf’s in that cupboard and all of the overhead cupboard space and two fridge freezers free for food storage, when all that is full we then have storage under two seats the third seat taken up with the air con unit, storage in reserve is the ice box cupboard under the steering station, we could fit a freezer in there if required or just extra storage, so there is my hypothetical plan, you guys that already own a L400 may advise if you think I am on the right track or not.
Kind regards Peter

[Garold]

Peter, sounds like you made good use of your visit to the Sydney Boat Show.

Our storage system is a bit different. It goes something like, my wife decides where things go, she puts them there, and then I ask every time I need something.

More seriously, we never thought of using the drawers under the chart area for galley storage but now we will maybe change that.

Only a month or two to go for you now Peter so I guess it really is time to begin buying pots and pans.

After spending 2 weeks on board, we did find that just having one fridge is a bit limiting so your extra fridge freezer will, I am sure, be handy.

Cheers

Garold

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Garold

On reflection, I don't think that the 33kg Rocna would have fitted too well because our Rocna already snags the bowsprit cable and the jib furl line if we haul the anchor in too quickly. This is not a problem because we always rinse the anchor off in the sea as we move off for a few hundred metres and then haul the final metre or two carefully.

Having used the Rocna for 2 weeks during which we anchored overnight 4-5 times and used the anchor for daytime breaks another 5-6 times, we are quite impressed with the Rocna. Never broke out once, and is often so firmly embedded, it tends to make the boat dip down nose first a bit just before it breaks out on the final bit of the retrieval.

Would either of you with Rocnas care to contribute pictures to an entry in the compatibility section of the Rocna Knowledge Base for the Lagoon 400? E-mail me if so.

[paulrack]

No Problem, I will take a pic of mine when I am next on the boat.

[Garold]

I shall try to do the same Craig.

Just to reitterate, the Rocna anchor is proving to be a trusty, reliable piece of kit on our new Lagoon 400.

Bl**dy expensive, but does exactly what it says on the label!

Cheers

Garold

[peterp]

Hello Garold, are you happy with the way the anchor fitted the existing fittings, or do you think some mods may be in order?, I would like a reliable anchor looks like I’ll have to change based on what everyone is saying, bit of a pain. Fortress and Sarca seem to be well thought off products as well, what is really wrong with Delta as fitted to the L400, one would think Lagoon would fit a decent anchor or is it all price driven.
Regards Peter

[hanafe]

Hi Peter,

I have no problem with my Delta anchor fitted by Lagoon. Never broke out so far. We always give the anchor a lot of time to settle down before we dig it in. We anchored at least 50 - 60 times already.

Also during our cruise through the Phillippines we never had a problem. Mainly we had sand or mud. However, I can not say how it would hold in very strong winds as we never had more than F 5 on anchor.

Cheers
HanaFe

[peterp]

Thanks Hanafe, that's a vote for the Delta. Any other input on the Delta good or bad.
Regards Peter

[craigsmith]

Re the anchors you mention. Fortress/Danforth not general purpose anchors and should not be used as primary anchor. SARCA designed for small boats, mild steel construction, slot in shank inadvisable, wouldn't use on anything other than tinnies. Delta okay but relatively inefficient now and cheapness in terms of construction/finishing. Significant experience with Delta, read essay here (bottom): www.rocna.com/kb/Delta_anchor.
Lots of independent testing/feedback available in general. Start here:
www.rocna.com/kb/Independent_testing

[peterp]

Simply to have another opinion on the anchor subject I have copied below from Boating Equipment Review/Test; Boat anchor types & anchors manufacturers comparison.
Reviewing the various manufactures sites they all have wonderful test results leaving me confused.
Time after time, where appropriate, we would launch our DELTA on about 3:1 scope figured from the actual attachment point plus the tidal range. That meant if the water was six feet deep and the tide range was four feet and our freeboard is four feet, then we would allow 45 feet of rode including the bridle. There were a few times, like the rivers in Georgia where ebb currents often reach seven knots that simply are not places to take a chance on a single anchor. In those locations, I used the DELTA to anchor against the stronger ebb current and one of my Fortress ones against the flood in a Bahamian Moor. In many locations, however, where previously I had routinely laid out multiple anchors, I used the single DELTA on 3:1 scope. After 35 months and well over 300 anchoring experiences in all kinds of weather and every conceivable anchoring circumstance, I am willing to state that the anchor is a superior technology that I have come to trust implicitly. These are features I found about the anchor from my 300 anchoring test.
Regards Peter

[Garold]

Sorry guys. Didn't mean to start any kind of heavy debate about anchors.

I can only comment on the products that I have bought and used and in no way necessarily reference my comments to anything other than that. I just thought that giving some feedback on my decision making and short user reports may be useful for someone else if they are considering the same options. It's also important to remember that any account I give of my use of any equipment is only based on my own limited experiences in my own cruising grounds too, so may not generalise to others locations.

So, having now qualified everything that I may henceforth write............ here's a few further thoughts to clarify my anchor(ing) decisions.

We upgraded to a larger anchor on the L400 because the originally supplied 20kg Delta, which we used twice, broke free twice. The specifics of the event are not really important because the end result was that the two breakouts caused me to doubt the suitability of the anchor for our needs and decide to take action. Coincidentally, we also had a L380 before and on that boat we upgraded to a 20kg Delta (from a lighter weight danforth copy) and the Delta was always very reliable.

So, I have no issues with the Delta anchor, I just thought that Lagoon undersized the anchor for our use on the L400. I can see that Hanafe has a different view but as I said, I can only go off my own experience in my own cruising grounds.

Having read as many reports and as much info as I could I decided to try the 25kg Rocna. It fitted well but as I posted earlier, it does need a bit of careful handling as it comes onto deck. And so far, it's achieved what I wanted.

A different choice may be appropriate for others, but in (English) sand and mud, up to 3 or 4 knots of current and also in wind up to and around 25knots, the Rocna has held steady.

I'd say that maybe the best plan is to try the anchor that the boat comes with and then if it doesn't do what you require, look at the options. Since we are all in entirely different corners of the planet, it is unlikely that the same solution would suit us all anyway.

And Craig, just by the by, I did research hard, and buy your product and I think it's great, but I recognise that it may be the case that other products also have good features too. Bit like chocolate cake. I love it, but it doesn't mean that everything else in the cake shop is inedible. No offence intended, just voicing my own thoughts.

Cheers

Garold

[peterp]

Well said Gerard, your quite right I will test the factory anchor in our area, if like Hanafe experience it works well I won’t need to change. I guess there is no one product that works perfectly in every situation, case of be alert.
Regards Peter

[paulrack]

Hi Garold, I like the picture of you drying out on the beach. Where I am if you did that you would have to wait a few weeks for another springtide to get off!

Do you know what size props you have on your L400. I think it was you who said the folding props were disconcerting because of the delay when they open in reverse. I wanted folding props but was very nervous of what you experienced. On my monohull I had a maxprop which did not have that problem as it feathered. I ended up going with a three bladed flexofold 17X12 prop. I have been pleasantly surprised, when backing up there is virtually no discernable delay, in fact If I did not know what was on the boat I would say it is a fixed prop. Something to bear in mind if you ever wanted to change.

[Garold]

Originally Posted by paulrack

Hi Garold, I like the picture of you drying out on the beach. Where I am if you did that you would have to wait a few weeks for another springtide to get off!

Do you know what size props you have on your L400. I think it was you who said the folding props were disconcerting because of the delay when they open in reverse. I wanted folding props but was very nervous of what you experienced. On my monohull I had a maxprop which did not have that problem as it feathered. I ended up going with a three bladed flexofold 17X12 prop. I have been pleasantly surprised, when backing up there is virtually no discernable delay, in fact If I did not know what was on the boat I would say it is a fixed prop. Something to bear in mind if you ever wanted to change.

Paul, glad that your commissioning sail went. You sound really pleased.

As I have admitted elsewhere, my technical knowledge of our boat or any other for that matter, is very limited. So, no I don't know the prop size.

I do however, remember my first attempt to move an L400 demo boat round the marina. The boat was fitted with some kind of folding props and in reverse, it seemed to take an age before the reverse revs had any kind of impact on the momentum of the boat. I understand that given another opportuntiy on another day, the props may have performed differently or my expectations would have been different, but at the time we had a Lagoon 380 (with fixed props) and the L400 just didn't respond in anywhere near the same fashion. And so i made my decision to go with the fixed props on the L400.

Thanks for your prompt though. You know how it is. You have a funny experience and it sort of cements itself in your mind. So, maybe at some future time I will look again at folding props.

Cheers

Garold

[Garold]

But if you want a visual of our props.........


Cheers

Garold