380 S2: Lagoon 380 S2 - Pics from Strictly Sail Pacific

[Redbull addict]

[FrankZ]

What? No deck bunnies? What are boat shows coming to these days?

[schoonerdog]

Indeed, why do car shows get that right and boat shows appeal to our intellect?

[schoonerdog]

BTW, that's an excellent job of labelling. Been to lots and lots of boat shows and you have to stand in line to try to get someones attention to find out anything about the boat. Really remarkable that everyone doesn't do that sort of labelling.

we are at the show now. word has it that the lagoon 420, with electric drives, is stuck down in SD on its way to Oakland with problems.Anyone have any detailed information on that?

[Redbull addict]

the Lagoon rep didn't elaborate on the reason why it didn't make it when i asked....

[Efraim]

Originally Posted by Redbull addict

the Lagoon rep didn't elaborate on the reason why it didn't make it when i asked....

I feel sorry for anyone who has bougth this boat. Is it just me, or is the fact that they can't get the boat to a major even more than just a little troubling? Imagine yourself far from electricians, plumbers, mechanics, riggers and whatever else you need to make these things work, and something breaks... what do you do?

[db8us]

Interesting, that the additional space for instruments is now gone.
My Lagoon 380S2 modelyear 2006 (altough built 2005) looks like this:
There you can see an additional panel, in which i moved one of the ST60 Displays up and also where the compass sits in.
Where is the compass on this boat ? is it the white dome that can be seen above the panel ?
A good things is the 12V outlet next to the remotecontrol for the MP3 player. I forgot that :-( (but easy to change)

Are these the small winches ? I upgraded them to the bigger ones. 44.2 instead of Harken 40.2. Only the left inside winch is a small one.

Here a picture of my boat at the nautique salon in Paris before putting the plotters in:



and here after the plotter-Installation:

[Limpet]

RBA,

I was there at the show also. Did you happen to take pictures of Wahoo, the Dolphin 460?

As usual for the west coast show, the number of cats was weak, at only 3. I went aboad the 380 S2, seawind, and Dolphin many times. I did not like the Seawind that much.
We liked Wahoo quite a bit, but we did not like the price, which, by the way, they jacked up from 480 to $499K for the show. I also got an option price list, which could only be described as outrageous.
The 380S2 was priced @ $350K, $150K less than the Dolphin. There are quite a few used 380's available in the mid 200K range, which would put the Dolphin @ roughly $250K more than the 380. Hard to justify such a difference. Stilll.....the Dolphin is a nice boat.

[Limpet]

I spoke to the rep about the 420.
He said they simply under estimated how long it would take to get the boat to San Francisco. Weather was a factor and they found themselves in Southern CA, with no chance of making the show in time.

[Intentional Drifter]

Limpet is correct. The 420 was coming from Miami. They made the Miami - Panama run in 9 days, a very decent passage. However, they encountered strong headwinds (30 to 50 knots) all the way up the west coast, which required extended motoring and harbor-hopping. Then, crew availability problems, too.

Over the 4500 miles covered, they have had no significant mechanical problems. They just couldn't make the show in time.

ID

P.S. Owner deliveries are happening. One of the first N. American boats has either arrived in Tortula, or will do so in the next day or so, coming from France on its own bottom.

[GordMay]

Surprise, surprise!
A boat reports difficulty keeping to a tight schedule, whilst making the uphill “Baja Bash” (upwind, up-current, up-wave ...).

[cruisecat99]

[quote=Intentional Drifter]Limpet is correct. lagoon 420 passage

Over the 4500 miles covered, they have had no significant mechanical problems. They just couldn't make the show in time.}

--------------------------------
Interesting.
So the Miami show was mid February.
That makes the 4500 Mpassage well over 2 months.
2250M / month , 75M /day, 3knots on average. I guess this re-opens a can of worms from another thread about the Lagoon 420 possibly being not the fastest cat on the water.

What I love about the board members / 420 fans is that every time there is a question on the Lagoon 420, there are a 1001 excuses, and it's never the boats fault!

ps Was the same Dolphin in the Miami show as is in CA now? They made it!

[Intentional Drifter]

Cruisecat99:

A question was asked if anyone had any details regarding the 420. I happened to have some and provided it. Simple as that. Whether you, or anyone else, happens to like the boat, wasn't the point.

I haven't seen much evidence of people trying to gloss over the problems the boat has experienced, so far. In fact, if you read the many posts I think you will find some pretty detailed discussions of them. One must keep in mind, though, that the boat that has been in the US shows is only one boat, hull #2, a factory prototype. It has also been rather extensively modified and updated. When they've encountered a problem, I've been pretty impressed with Lagoon's willingness to arrive at a solution, test it (that is what they use the prototype boats to do) and then incorporate successful ones in the production line. This seems to be one of the advantages of being a large company, in that they have both the resources and the prototype boats (3 of them) to do so. Not many other boatbuilders can afford to do that. Rather, us owners typically get to be the beta testers.

RE: speed of passagemaking. In the Miami - Panama run (they departed on Friday, 2/23, by the way), they completed the run in 9 days, making 175 to 195 miles per day. While not making the seas boil under the transoms, those are certainly respectable runs, especially for a cruiser.

Going up the west coast -- a notoriously difficult passage, as Gord describes -- they were averaging 3.75 knots, almost all of it motoring into the wind. They were stuck in port due to bad weather much of the time, and lost even more time when some of the crew had to depart for other commitments and they didn't have replacements. (Unfortunately, the factory folks who set up the delivery were not experienced in these waters and didn't listen to their west coast dealers who knew the difficulty of what they were planning.)

As to the overall speed of the boat, I still haven't seen any actual data that would lead me to believe that the 420 will be consistently and significantly slower (or faster) than any other cruising cat in the 38 to 45 foot range, in cruising conditions. I would refer you to a little data analysis I did awhile back: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ighlight=speed

There are a number of flaws in there, but if somebody can point me to any better data, I'd love to see it. In the meantime, though, the null hypothesis stands.

If you want to think of all of the above as just a protracted excuse, well, I can't stop you from doing so. But, I'll have to consider that as just another opinion and we've all got plenty of those. Show me some facts and I'll be thankful.

RE: The Dolphin. Nice boat. I like them, but my wife had several points about them that eliminated it, for us. I don't recall the name of the one in Miami (I went on it), but I don't think it was Wahoo (as that is a memorable name). But, I could be wrong. Even if it was the same boat, we don't know how it got to Oakland. Could have been via Dockwise or freighter.

As far as Efraim "feeling sorry" for anyone who has boat this boat, well, time will tell. Maybe he will be right and the 420 will be a big, fat lemon. If so, it will cost Lagoon/Groupe Beneteau lots of money, status, and sales. It will also cost the buyers a lot of value in their investment. That would sadden me, both from a financial point of view, but also what that is likely to mean in terms of improving the market for cleaner, more fuel efficient boats. A failure by the largest, most well-funded boat manufacturer will likely set back a broader acceptance by a substantial amount of time. Too many people will be scared of making such a shift. Plus, you can then feel good when rubbing our noses in it.

However, one can also look at it from the other possibility, that it works and is reliable and efficient. If so, then us early 420 buyers will be in a good position. We will have a quiet, reliable boat that costs us less to run and maintain. (Until you've experienced it, it is hard to believe the difference when motoring and the loudest noise you hear is the water running by the hulls.) Not to mention that we may well have one of the few boats that actually appreciates in value. I promise, though, if this turns out to the case, I won't rub your nose in it.

ID

[West Coast Cat]

Saw the cats at the Strictly Sail show also, the Lagoon 380 was pretty, though when I asked the rep about clearing a fuel line at night in a storm with a following sea, his comment was "duh, there are two engines", no access at all the the interior, same as the Dolphin though. The Dolphin was not the same as the Miami Boat, I spoke to the owner, he took delivery in the Caribean then after a week or so had his hired captain bring it back, this boat was stuck in Monterey for days waiting for the weather also. Not sure I like the anchoring system either, as confirmed by the owner the chain has a tendancy to hang up in the hawser. All in all a great show. Seminars where good.