450: Just signed on a new 450s!

[John Holbrook]

Charter and coastal cruising with many people maybe the F with the social flybridge. Offshore and short handed with say your wife allows you to be in close contact less isolated whilst one of you is inside. But both will do everything and it's a personal choice.

Originally Posted by rallyman1122

For both Dave and John.

Did you order the Flybridge or the Sportop? I am getting closer in my decision making process and am wondering about why people have made their choices. I have been on the 450F but not the 450S. And as it will only be for two of us most times am wondering if the Sportop might be a better choice

[rallyman1122]

Thank you John. We have an undefined goal of a circumnavigation. There will certainly be an Atlantic crossing. So before we make our choice, have to look at the 450S for sure

I was hoping to get to the boat show">Miami Boat show but work got in the way

[davedindubai]

I chose the S as it will mostly be just my wife and I. We loved the F too but as John said, it was personal preference.
We plan to fit a back rest to the sun lounger on the flybridge so hopefully will get the best of both worlds.
By the way, the S is also cheaper.

[rallyman1122]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

I chose the S as it will mostly be just my wife and I. We loved the F too but as John said, it was personal preference.
We plan to fit a back rest to the sun lounger on the flybridge so hopefully will get the best of both worlds.
By the way, the S is also cheaper.

Thanks Dave. I just realized the heading on this thread is about a 450S. Not my sharpest moment.

I would be interested on any designs you come up with for a backrest in that position. That never occurred to me and it might make the choice easier for us.

[davedindubai]

Originally Posted by rallyman1122

Thanks Dave. I just realized the heading on this thread is about a 450S. Not my sharpest moment.



I would be interested on any designs you come up with for a backrest in that position. That never occurred to me and it might make the choice easier for us.

It's another thing that only exists in my head at the moment but looking at the aft back rest in the cockpit area looks to be perfect fitted to the aft end of the sun lounger. You'd still get a 2m long sun bed but also a proper seat similar to (but hopefully an improvement on) the helia 44. Ideally I'd hinge it but it's all just ideas at present but I am asking Lagoon for a second back rest.

[steve450]

Hi dave you now have us excited as well. The main reason our upright support posts were not connected to the davits is the amount of movement and flexing in just small waves and swell. We did not want this twisting load going thru our solar panels.The uprights also come in handy as a hand rail at times.we used the stern light mounting area as our fixing point for the centre support using the existing holes we then fitted the stern light to the rear bracket we fitted on the solar panel frame.Great choice for the victron 5kva quattro but we could only find 2 places to fit it one is under the starboard seat. I chose to fit it under the switch board in the cupboard it has good ventilation axcess to all wiring and a simple support was all i needed.Will send photos next week as were back on the boat.Congratulations dave


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[davedindubai]

Thanks Steve, your install is most definitely the ultimate inspiration and as Paulinoz said, close to perfect.

I'd very much appreciate any further help you can offer and photos are great thanks.

I've a couple of questions if that's ok.
If I were to NOT use any aft supports from the davits, I would have to rely on the aftermost row of 3 panels being canter levered from the fly bridge posts and supported by the vertical uprights to the mid section of the frame. I would imagine there may be some bounce with this design. Any thoughts?

I'm also interested to see how you fixed your uprights to the deck and where. I have not selected the outboard bracket for this reason as I think it will be in the way and I can fit one to my stbd upright anyway.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

I chose the S as it will mostly be just my wife and I. We loved the F too but as John said, it was personal preference.
We plan to fit a back rest to the sun lounger on the flybridge so hopefully will get the best of both worlds.
By the way, the S is also cheaper.

Love the sun lounger idea; thinking about a three-sided stainless backrests and cushions providing more options (facing forward or toward the helm.)l also found a great sun shade idea for the forward cockpit. They had a very elegant solution on the 77 on display in Miami (I'll post a pic when I can.)

[PaulinOz]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

So our build deadline has now passed and our decisions are locked in for better or worse.

Despite my bank managers advice in the end I did go for the electric davit winch. I'll want to store the dinghy out of the water every day and I can see that being more likely with the electric winch.

I also opted for the teak cockpit last minute after quotes for flexi teak and perma teak coming in at over €7000 ( all be it for the whole stern ).

I haven't ordered anything for the solar install yet but I've made my decisions and I'm going all Victron and the Quattro 5kva as advised. I've even designed my tower but once I've got some proper drawings I'll start to get quotes.

I'm going for 6 panels in a 3x2 config and think I've come up with a nice design that will look nice as well as function.

Congratulations Dave on finalizing your order, all sound like good options. Now the fun begins, there is not a day go by when I am not grateful for that electric davit winch.

[steve450]

Hi dave You will notice that our uprights are curved from the outer beam down to the floor with 50mm stainless also we have 2x50mm supports going across the centre .The is no movement at all. The only problem we had was they made the corners 90 degrees square they should have been curved so the cables could go thru the frame without chaffing. Hope this helps


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[steve450]

Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Catapault]

Steve,

Awesome solar setup.

Which panels are you using that fit that ?

I want to put 2kw of solar in on 6 panels, but likely need to do it in Turkey, so not sure of supplier. (Sunpower ? other ?)

Regards

[davedindubai]

Thanks Steve.
That will all every helpful. I want to try and make the frame from angle if I can and also keep the aft supports vertical if I can. I need to work out if my design will be sturdy enough or if I will be forced to use tube for strength.

Catapault.
I think I am going to buy my panels in the UK and take them to France myself along with all the Victron equipment. It is approx £2000 for 6x 327w panels and the Victron stuff is considerably more.

[John Holbrook]

I'm in France now and I'm going to sail to the Caribbean next week on a 52F (not mine) so my opinion on S vs F may change but I doubt it.

I was at Miami show and met up with another member. It as great to bounce ideas around.

Originally Posted by rallyman1122

Thank you John. We have an undefined goal of a circumnavigation. There will certainly be an Atlantic crossing. So before we make our choice, have to look at the 450S for sure

I was hoping to get to the Miami Boat show but work got in the way

[John Holbrook]

For me using aluminum (wrapped in white vinyl, anodized or painted) for the frame is not so much based on cost (but I think it would be cheaper) but based on the variety of L, C and T channel available to securely hold the panels, cover the black panel frames so they can't be seen from dock level, the weight and avoiding using potentially poor quality 316 which will take a lot of upkeep. I would be concerned some channel available in 316 is meant for beautifying building and not for the sea.

The attachments to the cockpit roof could be like Roetter's and the supporting 316 poles aft attached to the frame with a similar slot and bolt arrangement.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...6&d=1439071656
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...6&d=1439071656

Originally Posted by davedindubai

Hi John,

I'm sorry I only saw your most recent post. I use the app and it misses some posts for some reason. I was trying to upload a photo on the browser and then saw the earlier post. To answer, I'm going all stainless, 50mm 2mm angle for the frame, 40mm tube for the uprights. A frame of 4.8m x 2.1m using all 50mm angle will use just under 32m of angle. Using the same materials for the whole frame might be cheaper and I think look better than mixing metals. Labour will be the bigger cost but instal should be fairly simple.

I plan to fix the frame to the top of the flybridge posts then have 2 upright posts (50mm tube) supporting the mid section (these will bear most of the load and the location of these is tricky but I think I can make it work). The aftermost supports are welded to the end of the davits (more for security than support but will stop any flex). Nb. Davits max load is 250kg.

I'll add 2x 25mm tubes from fwd to aft to store everything from boards to boat hooks and also carry the aft panel cables back towards the flybridge to penetrate inside the boat. And a 3rd 25mm tube from fwd to aft to lift the engine from.

Once it's all polished it should look good and also be neat and tidy while adding storage plus as you say, a place for lighting the stern and BBQ, fit blinds to and even make electricity. All these ideas have come from this forum and the guys willing help.

When I have a proper drawing I will post it but at present it's all in my head.