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Old 06-12-2018, 22:54   #781
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Thanks Mark,

I've got my 450S manual on my iPad so have the "i" but it states it is the height from deck to the highest genoa sheave. 16.84m.

I've got a photo of Hayley up the mast where I can see the spinnaker block is approx 50cm above that?

We've got our gennaker which is OK for light wind reaching but I would really like a Wingaker too. As funds allow.

The code zero is going to be made from a Tri Radial Laminate with a proper anti torsion cable stitched in the luff and furled using my Facnor FX4500. I've not chosen on the exact loft yet but all the quotes I've had use similar materials.
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Old 11-12-2018, 16:11   #782
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Dave,

In the quote you received, did they mentioned the Rig dimensions (I, J, P, E) they are taking into account and the resulting sail area ?

Or give Luff/leech/foot/LP ?

In the manual for the 450s that you have, does it show a rigging with 2 shrouds as the original 450 (before even F/S).
If you dont have that wrong version, any chance you can post on the Lagoon FB group.

it's interesting to see whether there is a real difference for a code0 between the S and the F, or if a difference may be more on original rigging which wasn't z-spar and the z-spar they are using now...

thank you.

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Originally Posted by davedindubai View Post
Thanks Mark,

I've got my 450S manual on my iPad so have the "i" but it states it is the height from deck to the highest genoa sheave. 16.84m.

I've got a photo of Hayley up the mast where I can see the spinnaker block is approx 50cm above that?

We've got our gennaker which is OK for light wind reaching but I would really like a Wingaker too. As funds allow.

The code zero is going to be made from a Tri Radial Laminate with a proper anti torsion cable stitched in the luff and furled using my Facnor FX4500. I've not chosen on the exact loft yet but all the quotes I've had use similar materials.
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Old 11-12-2018, 23:05   #783
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

hi,

no, I have the manual which may have the incorrect "i" measurement so I'm looking to you guys to do the measurements for me.

once I have ordered the sail, I'll be happy to share all the details inc sizes etc on here.
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Old 01-01-2019, 11:55   #784
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

On the subject of head sails, etc...

We are spec-ing out our 450S and want to get the "Code 0 rig & pole" option which we understand includes the bowsprit/pole and the cockpit winches.

What else comes with this package? Specifically are there reinforced attachment points like padeyes added aft to use with blocks to turn the Code 0 sheets toward the winches? Are these attachment points located in solid glass sections with backing plates (or smaller washers)?

Do any blocks, sheets, or other do-hickeys come with the Code 0 option?

We understand that the sail itself is a separate purchase, the Lagoon offering is expensive, and we plan to buy a Code 0 sail from a 3rd party sailmaker just like others are doing.

We are also interested in having downwind sails, and are looking into a Wingaker or Parasailor. So this leads to questions about the attachment points at the bow.

Do bow padeyes come standard with all 450's, or only come with the "Code 0" option, or only come with the "Asymmetric Spinaker Gear" option? If they do not come standard or with the Code 0 option, I will put them on myself (and I understand that there may be some foam filler material in the way to remove before accessing that part of the hull)

Last question is; how many halyards come with the boat in total when including the Code 0 option? 3 or 4?

Thanks
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Old 01-01-2019, 20:14   #785
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Not to hijack your feed Dave, but I would like to add the following;

Regardless of what water maker you go with, if Lagoon installs it they will remove a water tank. Have it installed after market and you will not need to remove one.

Your Lagoon 450 will come with aft pad eye's, but they do not have backing plates. Backing plates are a MUST if you are going to fly a Code 0. Without a backing plate the gel coat around pad eye will incur fissure cracks which will lead to water intrusion.

I have pictures to show what happened to us, but I can't figure out how to post them. Do you need an upgraded account to post pictures?
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:54   #786
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hi CatPeople

Some comments on your questions based on my experience with our Lagoon 42 purchase:

- We ordered the Code Zero Option but not the sail. Saved over half the cost of Lagoon's Code 0 sail by doing this.
- Our L42 Code 0 rigging option included the bow sprit and diagonal stays, Code Zero 2:1 halyard, port and starboard sheets, 100 mm turning blocks, and two aft winches in cockpit.
- Wichard folding pad eyes (medium size) were fitted by the factory on the gunwale to accept the turning blocks.
- There were no pad eyes fitted to the bows by the factory. I presume that if you select the spinnaker rigging option, then these would be included. I did not. I fitted my own so that I can fly an assymetrical kite. I used G10 sheet approx. 200mm square and ~8mm thick as backing plate material under the deck.
- I have 3 halyards in total with the code 0 option (2:1 Main, 2:1 Headsail, and 2:1 Code 0). I plan to install an additional 1:1 halyard through the spare masthead sheave for the kite.
- A note regarding the diagonal stays holding down the bow sprit. There are no solid backing plates fitted by the factory behind the pad eyes attached to the these stays low down on the inside of each bow. After hearing about gelcoat crazing on another boat, I installed G10 backing plates behind the pad eyes on my boat (approx 125 mm square and ~6mm thick).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatPeople View Post
On the subject of head sails, etc...

We are spec-ing out our 450S and want to get the "Code 0 rig & pole" option which we understand includes the bowsprit/pole and the cockpit winches.

What else comes with this package? Specifically are there reinforced attachment points like padeyes added aft to use with blocks to turn the Code 0 sheets toward the winches? Are these attachment points located in solid glass sections with backing plates (or smaller washers)?

Do any blocks, sheets, or other do-hickeys come with the Code 0 option?

We understand that the sail itself is a separate purchase, the Lagoon offering is expensive, and we plan to buy a Code 0 sail from a 3rd party sailmaker just like others are doing.

We are also interested in having downwind sails, and are looking into a Wingaker or Parasailor. So this leads to questions about the attachment points at the bow.

Do bow padeyes come standard with all 450's, or only come with the "Code 0" option, or only come with the "Asymmetric Spinaker Gear" option? If they do not come standard or with the Code 0 option, I will put them on myself (and I understand that there may be some foam filler material in the way to remove before accessing that part of the hull)

Last question is; how many halyards come with the boat in total when including the Code 0 option? 3 or 4?

Thanks
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Old 02-01-2019, 10:47   #787
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Correction:
Existing Halyards with Code 0 Option are:
Main (2:1)
Headsail (1:1)
Code 0 (2:1)
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Old 14-01-2019, 11:44   #788
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Thanks Matagorda!

Have any Lagoon owners installed a 4th halyard? I do not even know if it is possible or easy on the Lagoon stick (450 model).

With a genoa and Code 0 on the furler rigged up and furled, there is no further option to fly a spin (e.g. Parasailor) unless another halyard is available. Or I suppose the Code 0 gets dropped to deck to rig the spin. How much of a hassle is that, or is the Code 0 fairly light weight (I'd like my wife to do the grunt work!) on a 450?

It would be nice to have a spare halyard too, regardless of having a 4th sail or not, since it can be handy to hoist equipment, MOB retrieval, etc

Appreciate any info

CatPeople
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Old 14-01-2019, 11:58   #789
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

I guess, there is no option for that, the mast is simply not set that way. I wish, thete could be a free track for a mast halyard to climb up, but thete is no such thing.
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Old 14-01-2019, 12:34   #790
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hi CatPeople

I am in the process of installing a 4th Halyard on our L42 so we can use our asymmetric kite. I did intend to use the Code 0 halyard also for the spinnaker but decided against it for a couple of reasons:

1) The eye strap fitting attached to the mast where the Code 0 halyard leads away from the mast and down to the halyard block looks to be a potential shafe point. It is fine with the Code 0 because with the straight luff on this sail the halyard is pointed at a shallow angle down towards the tack on the cross beam as it comes out of the eye strap. However, with a kite the head of the kite is much closer to horizontal as it leds away from the mast, and I fear that the halyard might shafe prematurely against the edge of the eye strap. This fear may be unfounded but I prefer for peace of mind to avoid this risk.

2) We have a UV weatherstrip on the luff and foot of our Code 0, so we can leave it permanently hoisted. It is not that we intend using the spinnaker that often, but for us, life is a lot easier for short handed sailing when we don't have to wrestle these big sails down and store them. We prefer to sail with as little sail handling as possible so will leave the Code 0 up and install the extra halyard for the spinnaker. And, as you say, it is always good to have a spare halyard in any case.

Installing the 4th halyard should be relatively easy since there is a spare sheave on the forward side of the masthead assembly. Down below on the mast is not quite as straightforward though.

I intend adding a Spinlock XTS clutch on the mast (same type as the factory fitted clutch used for the Code 0). The one issue that I need to plan carefully is where to put the halyard exit point and where to mount the clutch. It needs to be fitted on the port side of the mast to get it back to the halyard winches easily. There are so many other holes already in the same general area of the mast that the options are limited. I have added a snatch block at the base of the mast to feed the new halyard back to the winches. There is a spare spot for that.

Not sure if any of this will help, but I imagine that the set up on the 450 is similar in many ways.

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatPeople View Post
Thanks Matagorda!

Have any Lagoon owners installed a 4th halyard? I do not even know if it is possible or easy on the Lagoon stick (450 model).

With a genoa and Code 0 on the furler rigged up and furled, there is no further option to fly a spin (e.g. Parasailor) unless another halyard is available. Or I suppose the Code 0 gets dropped to deck to rig the spin. How much of a hassle is that, or is the Code 0 fairly light weight (I'd like my wife to do the grunt work!) on a 450?

It would be nice to have a spare halyard too, regardless of having a 4th sail or not, since it can be handy to hoist equipment, MOB retrieval, etc

Appreciate any info

CatPeople
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Old 14-01-2019, 12:39   #791
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

....read "Chafe" instead of Shafe". Dyslexia setting in.....
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Old 16-01-2019, 15:39   #792
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingforfun View Post
Not to hijack your feed Dave, but I would like to add the following;

Regardless of what water maker you go with, if Lagoon installs it they will remove a water tank. Have it installed after market and you will not need to remove one.

Your Lagoon 450 will come with aft pad eye's, but they do not have backing plates. Backing plates are a MUST if you are going to fly a Code 0. Without a backing plate the gel coat around pad eye will incur fissure cracks which will lead to water intrusion.

I have pictures to show what happened to us, but I can't figure out how to post them. Do you need an upgraded account to post pictures?


Hi,
If you send me the pics, Iíll post them for people to see. Iím in the process of ordering backing plates for the aft blocks and the sprit stays. I had a chat with a rigger about the stresses on the diagonal stays on the sprit and they are immense.

Iíve chosen my code zero specs. Iíve certainly learned a lot about sails while doing this research. Most importantly how confusing all the different definitions of sails are, with code zero seemingly the most misunderstood sail. So what Iím buying isnít necessarily a code zero, but Iíll no doubt call it a code zero and most people that come on the boat or see it will refer to it as a code zero. Itís more a code zero that will be cut slightly fatter so that it works better on a cat and should work for wind angles up to 120 degrees. A code zero is meant to be strictly an upwind racing sail so not at all what I want on my big fat cruising cat.

I decided that our Genoa is fairly big (50m2) so isnít too bad close reaching especially if thereís a bit of wind so Iíd rather have a bigger sail that covers a wider wind angle and works better in a light breeze.

Iíve gone for a 3.25oz cloth from Dimension Polyants called CPP 300 or Cruise Precision Polyester. It strikes the right balance of cost and performance for me and Iíve gone big! Sheís going to be 105m2.

Iíve already got my 2:1 halyard installed and used my original main halyard (for now) which was spare. 67m is just the right length for the S. I am not positive but I think all the dims for the spinnaker are the same for the S and the F. The F mast is 1m higher but I think that is above the spinnaker fairlead (prob wrong name) up the top of the mast. The Genoa and the main sail luff lengths are the same but the boom is 1m higher on the F so the top of the mast needs to be 1m higher. So halyards will need to be a couple of meters longer for flybridge boats.

Anyway, Iím dead excited to be finally getting a new sail and canít wait to get out and use it. More importantly, to get those engines off when thereís not much wind!
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Old 17-01-2019, 00:03   #793
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hi Dave,

we have a L400S2, so a little smaller, and also a Code 0 factory installed.
As far as I can tell, the cat points higher with the Genoa + Main than with the Code 0, the Genoa is simply hauled closer to the mast and this gives a better angle to the wind (47į vs. 60į). There are also Code D sails that you probably refer to, with a larger belly for beam reach to downwind sails.

We will add a Wingacker / Parasailor for dead downwind too.
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Old 18-01-2019, 21:01   #794
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Quote:
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Hi Dave,



.We will add a Wingacker / Parasailor for dead downwind too.

Yes, thatís my plan too. Standard white sails for close hauled, new code zero for 50-120, our gennaker for 120-150 and then buy a wingaker eventually for ddw.
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Old 02-02-2019, 07:15   #795
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hello all,

We now have had our 450F since August and are quite content. Because there often is interest in these things, I'm sharing some photos of the extended railing and solar arch we just finished installing in Gibraltar. Work done by James Pritchard, same fellow that did the work for Dave and Hayley I think.
Good sailing.
[/IMG]

[/IMG]
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