450: Just signed on a new 450s!

[arsenelupiga]

Thanks tuskie,

showed your passage impressions to my wife.

See what she says

[bez]

Good day all,

I am having decals printed in advance of our June delivery. Would anyone care to measure the dimensions of the middle steps aft, so we can get the stickers in the correct dimensions.

Thanks in advance.

[Blackduck]

Originally Posted by bez

Good day all,

I am having decals printed in advance of our June delivery. Would anyone care to measure the dimensions of the middle steps aft, so we can get the stickers in the correct dimensions.

Thanks in advance.

Hi,
I had a second set of lettering for my boat just done in August (the one's I already had made were only 9.5cm tall which is under the minimum set for where the boat was registered - Jersey in the Channel Islands) so the specs I sent to the printer for the middle step aft was a usable space of 120cm by 18cm but for purposes of symmetry and to avoid the centrally located 4cm wide LED light. I only used the required 10 cm of height but could have gone to 11cm tall if I had desired.)
The step below has only 10cm of height available if you want to avoid the built in light in the centre.

FYI the total decal measurements for my boat name BLACK DUCK ended up being 86cm wide by 10cm tall
The name of the port (JERSEY) measured 58cm x 10cm

Hope that helps

[Bean Counter]

Step is not perfectly flat or rectangular.

Height 9.5" Top width 49.5" Bottom width 45.5". The larger flat section before the step face bevels off slightly is 7.25" high and top width of 48.5".

oops forgot this was for an "S" not sure steps are identical for the F

[bez]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

Step is not perfectly flat or rectangular.

Height 9.5" Top width 49.5" Bottom width 45.5". The larger flat section before the step face bevels off slightly is 7.25" high and top width of 48.5".

oops forgot this was for an "S" not sure steps are identical for the F

Thanks,

As Black Duck pointed out, there is also the registry requirement to contend with. I hadn't thought of that...
We are registering in New Zealand, where the minimum height is 50mm only, so we have plenty space.

[Integra]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

To give a practical example of the above...

We have to have our Victron 5kva Quattro 'on' before we start the water maker. Upon water maker start up, the genset 'unlatches' and the inverter takes over for about 5 seconds before the genset takes over the load again.

This is all automatic and as we have the inverter on almost all day anyway, it's no issue.

Hi Dave,

I need advice on my solar panel installation if you or anyone else can help?

We have brought six 365W solar panels, and a 5KW Quattro, which we want to install with our existing 2KW inverter and four 120W panels already on board our Lagoon 450. Due to the weight, we bought the panels locally to the boat in Alicante.

Unfortunately the Spanish supplier does not install on boats, and the guy who was going to install for me has got cold feet.

First off, as we will have almost 2.7Kw of panels, I want to be able to run one of our aircon units while we are not connected to shore power. The 5Kw Quattro will handle the start up current, and a single aircon unit draws about 900W, so in theory this is possible. If the voltage drops too low, the Quattro will start our 12Kw generator to recharge the six gel batteries.

However, I'm told that the AC and the DC systems are isolated from each other, and you can only run the aircon from shore power.

I therefore have three questions:

Is there some way to connect one of the aircon units to the Quattro so it can run off the batteries/solar panels?

Where did you fit your 5Kw Quattro, as we are struggling to find a space for it?

Can you recommend somewhere in Southern Spain or Gibraltar that would be able to install the system for us?

Keep up the great work with your videos - we are really enjoying them, and love the fact that you are both so natural in front of the camera.

All the best,

Jason

[rom]

Originally Posted by Integra

Hi Dave,

I need advice on my solar panel installation if you or anyone else can help?

We have brought six 365W solar panels, and a 5KW Quattro, which we want to install with our existing 2KW inverter and four 120W panels already on board our Lagoon 450. Due to the weight, we bought the panels locally to the boat in Alicante.

Unfortunately the Spanish supplier does not install on boats, and the guy who was going to install for me has got cold feet.

First off, as we will have almost 2.7Kw of panels, I want to be able to run one of our aircon units while we are not connected to shore power. The 5Kw Quattro will handle the start up current, and a single aircon unit draws about 900W, so in theory this is possible. If the voltage drops too low, the Quattro will start our 12Kw generator to recharge the six gel batteries.

However, I'm told that the AC and the DC systems are isolated from each other, and you can only run the aircon from shore power.

I therefore have three questions:

Is there some way to connect one of the aircon units to the Quattro so it can run off the batteries/solar panels?

Where did you fit your 5Kw Quattro, as we are struggling to find a space for it?

Can you recommend somewhere in Southern Spain or Gibraltar that would be able to install the system for us?

Keep up the great work with your videos - we are really enjoying them, and love the fact that you are both so natural in front of the camera.

All the best,

Jason

Hi Jason, 2700W is a lot ... you should start a new thread with a description/diagram of your system, what you want to do, what answers your seeking. I "only" have 1320W and a multi 3kW but ... if I were you I would connect every 230VAC (110VAC ?) equipments including aircon to the quattro. Only one shore power plug 32A (xxx A?) directly to the input of the quattro.

[PaulinOz]

[QUOTE=Integra;2554211]

"Is there some way to connect one of the aircon units to the Quattro so it can run off the batteries/solar panels?"

Yes the Quattro has 2 x AC outputs:
One is live only when Shore power or generator is on.Call this "Output A"

The 2nd is also feed from the inverter as well as shore power and generator call this "Output B".

"Output A" Should be connected to the Air Con that is to only run on shore/generator power.

"Output B". Should be feed into the boats main AC system. This way you can run everything else from the inverter/shore power/generator as required.

You say you also want to run an existing 2kW inverter (What is it ? Why is the 5kW not enough?)

Interconnection between to sources of Inverter AC could be very problematic, if not interconnected and controlled same style units eg: Victrons are made to link together to give more kW's.



"Where did you fit your 5Kw Quattro, as we are struggling to find a space for it?"

Is your 450 an L or an F?

Places I have seen them mounted under bed Starboard aft.

Clear Horizons mounted it in Electrical cabinet under TV after removing now redundant AC switching panel and relocating still required existing equipment.

On an L450 "S" I believe there is space up in the helm seat area but Dave will know more and hopefully chip in.

"Can you recommend somewhere in Southern Spain or Gibraltar that would be able to install the system for us?"

Sorry no idea on that one, from the other side of the world.


Some other thoughts on installation. When installing panels and MPPT controllers you will require to put in circuit breakers. Make these easily accessible. I placed under the bed and there are times when getting at them to turn systems on and off would be so much easier if the bed did not require stripping down to get to them.

Monitoring and switching panels are better mounted on the wall just aft of the Owners side door at eye level. Way easier to stand and program or check on charging levels than sitting on the stairs with electrical door open and blocking said stairs.

If not to late go with Victron Colour control, Battery Monitor and Victron MPPTs as these will all talk to the Inverter and make for a very good combined system.

I have Master Volt Battery monitoring, Victron Inverter and Outback MPPT all work well but you need to read each to see what is charging and what is using power and do some simple math to work it out. Whats what.

The Victron Colour Controller shows in graphical display, what power is being produced and what power is being consumed and what is going into the batteries all at a single glance.

2,700 Watts is not a lot, it's almost perfect (you can never have to much power), combined with 1500 amp/hours of AGM's or similar capacity batteries and you will be a happy camper.

Just my thoughts there is no right or wrong whatever works for you.

[rom]

Originally Posted by PaulinOz

"Output A" Should be connected to the Air Con that is to only run on shore/generator power.

I do not understand why you would deliberately create such limitations on your system. With 2700W solar, quattro 5kW and adequate battery you can easily use aircon for a few minutes/hours in total silence away from shore.

e.g. everything is connected to the multi 3kW ("ouput B") on my boat and I can start the water heater whenever I want.

Of course this is not fool proof and as you said, it's about what works for you !

[davedindubai]

Will have to keep this brief while I have a coffee and WiFi. Sorry!

I’ve mounted the 5kva Quattro under the stairs that lead up to the helm. (S only). Great location to keep noise down and it’s cool / dry. You’ll need to make a shelf to hang it on but there’s plenty of space.

In Gib, try Dave and Dylan who installed my system. They learned a lot doing mine so should be able to improve things for you. Electrical Marine Services, Gibraltar.

Also, defo get the Color Control. Makes life very simple even tho mine still isn’t set up properly! It’s working well enough for me to manage life each day and end up with a g and t in my hand.

Good luck, sorry again for the brief reply.

[Integra]

Hi guys,

Thank you to all three of you for your responses.

Dave, are you saying the Quattro is quite noisy? Better not install under the bed then!

Thanks for the recommendation - I'll contact Electrical Marine Services.
I've ordered the Victron colour control, a BMV-700 battery monitor and three MPPT 150v/35a chargers (two solar panels per charger).

We have the Flybridge version, so I don't thik it's possible to install under the stairs, but perhaps I can install in the electrical cabinet as Paul suggested.

Paul, your suggestion of installing the monitor and switches on the wall is brilliant - I wouldn't have thought of that.

We already have four flexible 120W solar panels on board connected to a Mastervolt charger, a 2KW Marinco inverter and a Mastervolt Easyview. It was suggested that I should keep this system separate from the new solar panels and Quattro (albeit using the same six 140amp gel batteries) as its easier than merging the systems and I guess it provides redundancy?

However, I'm not sure if the 220v output from both inverters can be connected to the same 220v distribution system?

Rom, on reflection I think you're right - it would be simpler to have all the 220v sockets and the aircon units connected to the Quattro, and if the voltage on the batteries drops, the Quattrro will automatically run the generator. However, I understand this will require rewiring the aircon which by default is only connected to the shore power inlet?

Given that I have 840 Amp/hours of batteries, I had considered adding two more similar gel batteries. The existing batteries are two years old, so may be better to wait until these have to be replaced?

I've attached a moc-up of the frame. The cross bar is to mount a Magma BBQ on - any suggestions on what height this bar should be?

Thanks again!

[Integra]

Here is the drawing of the solar frame:

[PaulinOz]

"Dave, are you saying the Quattro is quite noisy? Better not install under the bed then!"

We have the 3kW at the foot of the bed in electrical cupboard noise not an issue with that. Under the bed will work if you have space, but there may be Air Con under there.

"Three MPPT 150v/35a chargers (two solar panels per charger)."

Are they big enough for 2 x 365wat panels? Thats 730 watts with a 12volt output up in the 60 to 70 amp area. I think you need to re-think the MPPT size IMHO.

Steve450 has 3 lots 2 x 345watt panels connected to 150-70 MPPT controllers.


"However, I'm not sure if the 220v output from both inverters can be connected to the same 220v distribution system

No because there is no way sync the frequency and voltage output between the two different inverters. They could be wired up through an Isolation switch so you can use one or the other inverter but not both at same time.

"Rom, on reflection I think you're right - it would be simpler to have all the 220v sockets and the aircon units connected to the Quattro, and if the voltage on the batteries drops, the Quattrro will automatically run the generator. However, I understand this will require rewiring the aircon which by default is only connected to the shore power inlet?"

That is the best idea, I agree with ROM on that one.

[rom]

The factory setup is way too complicated, with the quattro at the heart of your electrical system you will end up with a much nicer/simpler system. You should really take some time to draw a diagram that will prevent you from doing mistakes. in the meantime here are my humble suggestions:

MPPT: I use the 150/60 with 2x330W. For you that would be the minimum, you may want to use 150/70, especially if you intend to sail closer to the sun where your panels will deliver more than the spec. You did not say, but we assumed your DC system is 12V.

Batts: it's up to you but I would keep it like that for say one year, learn how the system works with your needs and then maybe change it all to something else (eg lithium or bigger gel, agm, ...)

Antenna: make sure it is low enough not to shade your solar panels, that would be a shame...

Spare inverter: I would store it under a bed in case the quattro fails. 230VAC shall not be critical on your boat, and installing the spare should take less than an hour. Otherwise do as Paulin suggest if you prefer to have it ready.

Connections: input 1: generator, input 2: shore, output 1: 230VAC panel; output 2: nothing. The 230VAC panel has a 30mA differential breaker and some other breakers, one of which would be dedicated to your aircon system.

[sidetracks]

Hi all


Dave we are following in your footsteps ref Solar for the 450S (complete)

Is there any modifications you would recommend.

How is the supports and frame holding out.

Did you manage to get an outboard mount fitted?

We have been in touch with Dave Campbell in Gibraltar. Very informative and helpfull. Have his contact number if needed.

For logistics and warranty reasons it looks like we will get all our solar works including copper coat done in France.

Our contractor wants to support the solar frame from the davits.
As he feels the span between supports are to far for the weight.?
But I like your setup as you have a clear view aft from the cockpit.

Request from my first Mate. Can someone supply the width in cm or inch of the mattress in the owners/guest aft cabins. (450S)


Now doing our chandlery list including life raft, Fire extinguishers, lifejackets etc.


No exact deliver date for our 450S. So still planning for end of Feb.

Looking forward to the next D&H vid (have ice-maker)

Regards
George