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Old 28-09-2017, 10:15   #391
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davedindubai View Post
With hindsight, I might have gone for the Onan 11kva. It's a tough decision and mine was driven by cost. 6.5kva will run water maker, bulk charge AND boil a kettle at the same time. It would do this AND run AC tho. Don't forget if the genset is running it will take over powering of everything.
I have been pondering this for some time, would it make sense to use a larger inverter and set up the 6.5kva generator to bulk charge the batteries only?
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Old 28-09-2017, 11:39   #392
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Quick edit:
I meant to say "it WONT do this AND run AC tho".
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Old 29-09-2017, 05:36   #393
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hi Dave

I will lookup the drawings and drop the 2kva lagoon inverter and go with the 5Kva.

How many 220v sockets did Lagoon supply ?

regards
George

regards
George
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Old 29-09-2017, 05:55   #394
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

I've found so far that there are enough sockets. I added an IP65 2 gang socket outside in the cockpit and one in the genset locker up front.

They are however, all upside down if you plan to use U.K. adapters. A simple fix obviously. I'm keeping them as euro sockets as we have a mix of appliances.

A really good mod that I plan to copy as soon as I can is adding a shaver socket to the owners bathroom and moving the light switch. Maybe Lagoon could start doing this in the factory?
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Old 29-09-2017, 08:50   #395
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_C View Post
I have been pondering this for some time, would it make sense to use a larger inverter and set up the 6.5kva generator to bulk charge the batteries only?
Hi Steve C

Thanks for the reply

What if
I select a Onan 7.5 Kw
Can I run all my needs of the Acid batteries (later upgrade to LiFePo4) with a Quattro 5Kva + Solar

Advantages will be :

Capital cost 50% (approx) less
Less weight
Lower rpm = Lower rpm
Lower running costs
Run A/c of battery and/or Onan 7.5 Kw (Quattro protects batteries from discharging)

regards
George
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Old 29-09-2017, 09:46   #396
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidetracks View Post
Hi Steve C

Thanks for the reply

What if
I select a Onan 7.5 Kw
Can I run all my needs of the Acid batteries (later upgrade to LiFePo4) with a Quattro 5Kva + Solar

Advantages will be :

Capital cost 50% (approx) less
Less weight
Lower rpm = Lower rpm
Lower running costs
Run A/c of battery and/or Onan 7.5 Kw (Quattro protects batteries from discharging)

regards
George
So, as I understand it, you COULD run the Aircon from the batteries, or when you start the Onan it would take over and run the Aircon. There would be a limit to the number of items that could be run at one time. if the Onan was running that would be roughly the 7,500 watts that the Onan can supply. It can handle some momentary startup peaks that go above this, but not really sustained loads. If running from Batteries only, regardless of what type of battery, you are even more limited to roughly 5000 watts of load. All of this is of course 120 (or 220) volt loads.

Running from the batteries would also be limited to run time and this ties back to usable capacity and your own tolerance for how far down you wish to discharge your batteries.

The real issue is that with the existing proposed setup AS IT IS NORMALLY INSTALLED, is that you cannot get the benefit of the 7.5KW of Generator output plus the output of the inverters 5KW at the same time.

The possibility that I have been considering is getting either a larger inverter, or combining two inverters (this is very common and easy to do) so that I could run up to 10,000 watts of load from the batteries, and use the generator only as a method to charge the batteries and of course contribute directly to the 12 volt load on the inverters. The biggest downside to this approach would be that the inverters could not be used as the charger. You would need either a generator that is set up to output 12 volts, or a separate inverter/charger to push 12 volts into the batteries. It could get overly complex in a hurry.

I actually like the idea of the smaller generator myself, I would probably just go with the smaller generator and live with the load limitations. If you choose a water maker that could run from either 12 volt or 120 you could simply switch it to 12 volt when and if you needed to make water and the generator was loaded up with Aircon load etc... In my RV days we would simply turn of the Air conditioner when we needed to use the microwave or make toast It really wasn't very often and really not a problem. I would imagine that the bulk of the time, the loads would be much lower.

I REALLY like the thought of the smaller low RPM generator for those really muggy days and/or nights when I would want Aircon for longer periods and Solar plus battery is just not realistic. If you had the bigger generator it would be running very lightly loaded for long periods, this is not ideal.

I hope this doesn't confuse the issue, and of course this is just my opinion. I plan to retire and purchase in the near future and these are exactly the types of issues I am thinking about right now. I actually work in the energy sector and find the vast number of ways to address energy issues enjoyable. Just this week I have completed a 10KW solar array on my roof. Big fun

At any rate best of luck, I wish I were making these choices today.
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Old 29-09-2017, 20:28   #397
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

If you plan to run heavy sustained loads through the inverter keep in mind the significant current load on the battery bank will reduce the voltage quickly. This means you will not get close to the rated capacity from your bank.
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Old 29-09-2017, 22:45   #398
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Depending on how you configure the Victron Quattro, you can use both Inverter and the A/C Source at the same time.

Specifically, the Quattro will start using the inverter to assist the A/C source I belive. See here.

https://www.victronenergy.com/invert...argers/quattro

"Unique PowerAssist feature
The Quattro will prevent overload of a limited AC source, such as a generator or shore power connection. First, battery charging will automatically be reduced when otherwise an overload would occur. The second level will boost the output of a generator or shore side supply with power taken from the battery."

However that may be on its shared output, not the 'A/C source only' output.


One reason I'm going with the Quattro is the zero-switch time between A/C sources and the Inverter. If you don't want that, you can potentially use a cheaper Interver/Charger unit and leave the manual changeover switch I think.

Either way, based on posts by others, I'v gone with the 5kva unit, 2x 150/100 MPPT controllers and the GX display. Gets all fitted next month. (could of been sooner, but we didn't want to interrupt the cruising time).

Regards

mark.
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Old 30-09-2017, 21:19   #399
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

The Quattro is an example of a synchronous inverter, functioning as catapult described under Power Assist feature. The other advantage of this type is that when your gen is running and you turn on A.C. for example, which requires a power surge to start, this surge can be accommodated by the Inverter thus allowing a smaller capacity generator. This would be of interest to Sidetracks if seaking ways to install a smaller Gen. The Lagoon inverter is not a synchronous type. Another way to avoid Aircon surge requirements is to install compressors that uses their own internal inverter technology, that is their power is AC to DC and back to AC, this allows a slow compressor start and no surge. Pretty sure Lagoon don't supply this type but plenty available after market.
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Old 02-10-2017, 23:38   #400
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

To give a practical example of the above...

We have to have our Victron 5kva Quattro 'on' before we start the water maker. Upon water maker start up, the genset 'unlatches' and the inverter takes over for about 5 seconds before the genset takes over the load again.

This is all automatic and as we have the inverter on almost all day anyway, it's no issue.
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:00   #401
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

I thought it might be handy to give an update on my bottom paint choice.

I choose to copper coat it and it was one of the hardest choices we made. Thereís so much negative press online and on this forum so naturally I was very skeptical but Iíve a few friends in the boating industry who swear by cc and in the end with trust in the yard applying it the decision was made to go for it.

Itís been 3 and a half months since we launched and I got in the water to give the hull a clean for the first time yesterday. Iím very happy so far! Thereís a very light covering of soft Ďfurí evenly covering the hull from the water line down. I did one half of the boat in 40 mins with mask, flippers and a scotch brite. It wasnít difficult work at all.

Hereís the conditions the boat has been in since launch:
Western Mediterranean water.
Summer months.
Longest time in any one place was 7 days.
Lots of time moving.
No marinas.
First hull paint.
Five coats of cc applied in 1 hot day then left to dry for 2 days.

Hopefully it will continue to perform well, Iíll try to keep up the reports.
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Old 07-10-2017, 20:54   #402
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

We had a similar product on our first Cat purchased in 2001, it worked well for several years but required an in water hull clean every few month - ok in summer - bit chilly in winter. Easiest to do if the tide range is big enough to put the boat on a sandbank - if not, snorkeling is a pain, hookah is the way to go. If you let it go too long the growth gets more aggressive and more effort to remove. In the end it became tedious and we put micron 66 over the top and this lasted two seasons without as much hull scrubbing (may be two times in two years - Southern Qld)







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Old 08-10-2017, 09:58   #403
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hi all,

As if my amazing wife Hayley hasn't had enough on her plate this year - I moved her from our lovely home in Dubai and then left her to launch our new floating home on her own and then sail it across the Bay of Biscay - anyway... She's even found time to do a blog. She's been filming our adventures all summer and we've finally got the first 3 episodes up onto YouTube.

I hope some of you might find it useful, as regular readers of this thread will know, it hasn't all gone to plan! There's plenty of high and lows and we've tried to be honest and will do lots more about the boat in episodes to come. If there's anything that people would like to see then I'll try and talk the boss into squeezing some cruisers forum requests in.

Here's a link to our channel, please subscribe and give a thumbs up if you like the videos. Looking forward to reading your comments. Please be kind, we are as new to making videos as we are to sail boats!

The Daley Adventure (Dave and Hayley)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2n...yaWMkBYpnNN1Rg
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:13   #404
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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Hi all,

As if my amazing wife Hayley hasn't had enough on her plate this year - I moved her from our lovely home in Dubai and then left her to launch our new floating home on her own and then sail it across the Bay of Biscay - anyway... She's even found time to do a blog. She's been filming our adventures all summer and we've finally got the first 3 episodes up onto YouTube.

I hope some of you might find it useful, as regular readers of this thread will know, it hasn't all gone to plan! There's plenty of high and lows and we've tried to be honest and will do lots more about the boat in episodes to come. If there's anything that people would like to see then I'll try and talk the boss into squeezing some cruisers forum requests in.

Here's a link to our channel, please subscribe and give a thumbs up if you like the videos. Looking forward to reading your comments. Please be kind, we are as new to making videos as we are to sail boats!

The Daley Adventure (Dave and Hayley)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2n...yaWMkBYpnNN1Rg

Very good! Thatís got me pining even more for our boat, only 7 weeks now....

Subscribed
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Old 09-10-2017, 16:37   #405
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Dave,
Thanks for the videos, but also thank you very much for starting this first post almost a year ago now.
It contains so much information. May need a dedicated search engine ! Need to keep going to outgrow the Lagoon 42 Fan club ..

Seriously, this has been extremely useful as much as fun. Thank you !
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